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Knight's Armament Co. Entering Airsoft Market


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#21 slu

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:43 PM

I just really hope this doesn't go the way of Madbull, and everything ending up with 'For airsoft use only' on it. If KAC get G&P, VFC, or a similar reputable company, with 100% accurate, high quality replicas, that don't have any mention of '6mm' or 'airsoft' on them, they'll make a *suitcase*-ton of money.


So, if you want a high quality product marked Knight's Armament, you can buy an actual Knight's Armament product. Depending on the item and your airsoft platform, it probably will work with some modification.

Otherwise, you can't expect them to willingly allow the existence of a low-cost airsoft product comparable in quality to their firearm product. They would be undercutting themselves.

In whatever way possible, the airsoft version must be clearly inferior to their firearm product, whether it be lower quality aluminum, poor anodization, looser tolerances on rail specs, obvious "FOR AIRSOFT USE ONLY" markings, or all of the above. This is not a question of "But KAC is a good company and X, Y, Z I met at M promotional event are good guys." It doesn't make sense for them to do otherwise.

From the perspective of someone living in the US, I for one am not excited about this licensing. I feel that the current state of the market, though it may be grey and unsteady, is best. For instance, VFC makes as accurate replicas as they can, usually getting the trademarks spot on. If any type of official licensing agreement comes into place, I severely doubt that this quality will be maintained. See any previous example of this (as already mentioned, Madbull being the worst offender). On a higher level, instead of doing KAC a favor and highlighting this as "Knight's Armament Co. Entering Airsoft Market," you can also think of this as "KAC Now Actively Defending Registered Trademarks and Intellectual Property Internationally."

For those stating "I hope this results in my favorite guns X Y Z being made into airsoft guns with high authenticity," what is stopping a company like VFC from making such products right now, without any type of licensing agreement? That is their entire business model (would you pay the premium for a VFC gun if they weren't the most faithful replicas of the real deal?) Currently, their only obstacle in making an airsoft replica of, say, an SR25 EMC, is they don't think there is enough demand. Once a licensing agreement is in place, they will have the additional obstacle of whether KAC will allow it or not.

This is obviously attractive from the manufacturer side: Taiwanese airsoft manufacturers gain more business legitimacy in the US with KAC sponsorship, can more readily reach the huge US market. KAC taps into the airsoft market via royalties which they were simply throwing away previously. For the consumer, the only benefit I see is maybe more readily accessible airsoft guns, not necessarily better airsoft guns or more authentic airsoft guns. Given that airsoft guns of all shapes and sizes are already readily available and legal in the US, that's not much of a benefit.

Edited by slu, 30 January 2012 - 10:58 PM.

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#22 WhiteHawksan

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:58 PM

oh slu, have a little faith :P

As it stands, many products for airsoft CAN be used for RS fine. G&P Aimpoints for example, will play happily on anything 5.56mm of below. Many airsoft free-float RIS are fine on RS, aluminium is aluminium it might be softer, but I've never bent an airsoft RIS out of shape, I don't see hwo a RS barrel is going to consistently raise the temprature of your aluminium handguards melting point, nor is it going to suffer any more abuse on a range than on an airsoft field, in fact, one might argue, substantially less abuse.
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#23 uscmCorps

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:59 PM

Slu, you've clearly been fortunate enough not to have had any license infringing shipments seized. I and many others have been stung by this. Personally, if the licensing fee increases the MSRP by 5% (anything more than that would be greed on someone's part since the royalties to the RS manufacturer are typically 5% of the factory price at most), but that means I can confidently import my KAC replica with full trademarks in tact, then that is 100% fine by me. To me, this move by KAC is a good thing.

As for "inferior" quality being a requirement, I don't see that as the case. VFC's rails are extremely high quality, but I would NEVER think to install them on one of my real firearms. What I do think would be reasonable would be for VFC (or whoever else gets the license) to laser engrave on the inside of the rails and underside of the BUIS "for airsoft use only". That way it's obvious and inescapable for anyone installing any of those parts, and yet won't detract from the aesthetic of those parts once installed.

#24 slu

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:20 PM

Sorry, I don't mean to sound negative. I'm just sharing my thoughts. Yes I have had pretty good luck importing, though I think that primarily has to do with the fact that, however often I move, I've never lived on West Coast.

To both above me:

I certainly agree that airsoft products such as rails, receivers, and other similarly fabricated items have come a very long way. Manufacturers like VFC, G&P (like you guys mentioned), Prime all have excellent machine work. In the actual cutting of metal, I would say their process is on par with US manufacturers of similar components for firearms. The only noticeable gap in quality is their choice of starting material, the finish, and the consistency.

What I meant by "inferior" quailty is pretty much trademarks, which is what I believe to be the greatest concern of everyone in this thread. I believe what you call the aesthetic of the part, the brand, the dim grey "KNIGHTS ARMAMENT CO TITUSVILLE, FL," etc., is one of the primary reasons why people desire KAC stuff in the first place, whether it be on a firearm or on an airsoft gun. I can't see KAC allowing an airsoft company to make a replica of their products without somehow sabotaging the visual appearance as to make it obvious that it is a replica. That would dilute the boutique KAC brand in much the same way that current unlicensed copies do right now. I think this dilution is the very problem KAC is trying to solve by introducing this type of licensing.

So, in short, the aesthetic is exactly the thing that KAC needs to defend: the airsoft items need to be different enough so that people will immediately know it's an officially licensed replica of a KAC item, not a KAC item. That way, the airsoft replica will actually elevate the KAC brand, much like how officially licensed car models elevate the status of cars (i.e., wow this car is so cool they made a toy out of it). I am not just talking about small text saying airsoft only. I'm saying obvious visual differences, like if you were to compare a Madbull RIS II against a Daniel Defense RIS II. You can tell the difference immediately by just looking at the product photos on retailer websites. Currently, I honestly would not be able to tell the difference between a VFC URX and a KAC URX without actually touching them both. This sort of gives the feeling, well if this Taiwanese company can be 90%, what is so special about KAC? Not really the vibe KAC is looking for. So, I don't think fine print tucked underneath is a realistic expectation.

Just my opinion. I may just be reciting the Umarex mindset. :no: Of course time will tell.

Edited by slu, 30 January 2012 - 11:28 PM.

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GBBP: TM SIG P226 Elite, TM Glock 17, KSC USP45, WA SCW3 Infinity Single Stack 6" IED, TM Jim Boland .38 Super Project (WIP).

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#25 fiddlesticks4220

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:22 PM

So KAC is taking the extra money from the royalties and producing a new SR47/74 right? That way VFC can clone it and i can have one... Bit OT. But there has to be demand on that gun :( ....

Is it true a few years ago VFC was sending replica guns to KAC as peace offerings?

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#26 ericfine50

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:26 PM

Wow - amazing how quickly this tread has gone off the rails.The press conference/media event to demonstrate that KAC wants to be an active contributor to the AS community. There was no talk of guns, gear, etc...
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#27 uscmCorps

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:22 AM

So, in short, the aesthetic is exactly the thing that KAC needs to defend: the airsoft items need to be different enough so that people will immediately know it's an officially licensed replica of a KAC item, not a KAC item. That way, the airsoft replica will actually elevate the KAC brand, much like how officially licensed car models elevate the status of cars (i.e., wow this car is so cool they made a toy out of it). I am not just talking about small text saying airsoft only. I'm saying obvious visual differences, like if you were to compare a Madbull RIS II against a Daniel Defense RIS II. You can tell the difference immediately by just looking at the product photos on retailer websites. Currently, I honestly would not be able to tell the difference between a VFC URX and a KAC URX without actually touching them both. This sort of gives the feeling, well if this Taiwanese company can be 90%, what is so special about KAC? Not really the vibe KAC is looking for. So, I don't think fine print tucked underneath is a realistic expectation.

Just my opinion. I may just be reciting the Umarex mindset. :no: Of course time will tell.

Actually, I completely disagree with this line of thinking. The gun doesn't have to scream airsoft for it to elevate the RS manufacturer's brand. If anything it'll hurt sales and hurt the brand. Take LWRCi's license to CA for example. Granted the CA replica wasn't perfect. And CA definitely dropped the ball on expanding the LWRC airsoft product line (not doing an airsoft REPR was a clear missed opportunity). But the CA M6A2 was a very close (possibly perfect) aesthetic reproduction of the real thing with accurate stamped trademarks (the US version was accurate at the request of Spartan Imports, CA just couldn't care less about accuracy for the rest of the world and only laser engraved rather than stamped trades). Another example would be Magpul PTS products. They're high quality products that look exactly the same as the real thing except they all have PTS subtly engraved on it somewhere to ensure you know it's not the same as the real steel product when you look closely enough. I get the feeling you don't give RS consumers enough credit. With all these counterfeit products on the market today, consumers are becoming much more cautious and informed. RS consumers are learning that just because something looks the same as the real deal, even feel the same as the real deal, if it isn't made by the RS company it probably won't work the same (or as well) as the real deal since it isn't tested the same as the genuine article. Many airsoft handguards don't have heat shields in them (e.g. VFC, PTS, G&P) as it's not needed, plus their absence alleviates room for handguard stored batteries. That's just one example. Point being, an airsoft manufacturer can still produce an exceptionally high quality product, accurate to the real deal (albeit subtly engraved somewhere non-distracting) and yet not have it devalue the original it was based off of.

#28 slu

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:19 AM

Again you make good points and I agree that both CA/LWRC and Magpul PTS are great counter examples. The new PTS AAC mock silencers are a shining example of your point (compared to, say, the utterly awful Madbull SF clones). I won't speculate any more and just say that it'll be what it'll be. I hope what you describe is in fact what will happen.

If you are plagued by customs seizures, I can see why this looks promising to you, as you have explicitly stated before. However, given the current selection of very well done KAC replicas from primarily VFC and G&P (in that order), aside from this possible increase in availability, I'm not convinced regarding what new products would be brought to the table as a result of this move.
GBBR: 7.5" Diplomat, 10.4" HK416 D10RS, 10.3" CQBR Block 2, 16" Recce (WIP), 20" M16A4, Romanian PM md. 90/POSP
GBBP: TM SIG P226 Elite, TM Glock 17, KSC USP45, WA SCW3 Infinity Single Stack 6" IED, TM Jim Boland .38 Super Project (WIP).

Everything I own is for sale, if offered a fair price.

#29 Grindstone

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:52 PM

Couldn't care less about trades, really. I just want a good, quality replica of the form of the RS product.


Also, if you buy a $60 "KAC" rail for your AR15, you should probably already suspect its integrity. But I know there's a lot of derps in the shooting world.
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#30 johny_blaze

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:14 PM

http://www.facebook.com/Mirsea?cropsuccess#!/photo.php?fbid=10150658092078950&set=a.10150651893293950.417700.17117533949&type=3&theater


Knight's Armament's first licensed Airsoft gun - the ARES LMG exclusively brought to you by RedWolf.


Edited by johny_blaze, 14 March 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#31 Finbarqs

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:42 PM

They need to make their PDW GBB that's also a shell ejector! In a heartbeat!




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