jagillham Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I am looking at getting the KSC Glock 17 (metal slide) new, after having problems with a second hand G19 and G23f. I've not had the best of luck with GBB in the past, and what I am after is to get a work horse now. Something that will work time and time again flawlessly. There are loads of upgrades about, and really I'd like to know what they do, and if I should get them. This is a back up for very close range only, within rooms etc. Range is not really needed, but reliability. On my list so far is the hi-flow valves for the mags, both previous Glocks had issues sending the slide the whole way back. Parts I'd like a quick explanation of, and if I should use them are... Enhanced hammer spring? Hi output floating valve? Rocket Valve? Enhanced recoil spring? Anything else I should go for/avoid? Bearing in mind I want the thing to work close range consistently for a good length of time, not be some super FPS sniper pistol! Thanks in advance! James Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 a ksc glock shoots great stock but anyway here an explanation of what those parts do and enhanced hammer spring opens the valve quicker so it lets more gas trough (if you use stronger gas the valve will be harder to push so then a stronger spring is usefull) i wouldn't recommend this part because its difficult and frustrating to install an enhanced recoil spring will make your slide move faster (thats important if you install a heavier slide) i don't think that it will make alot of difference on a gun that has a metal slide stock you don't need a rocket valve or a floating valve Link to post Share on other sites
jagillham Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks for the quick response The problem I had with the two previous glocks was the slide was not going back far enough to pick up the next BB. With the enhanced recoil spring, am I right in thinking that brings the slide forward quicker. Therefore increasing the chance the slide will not go back enough in first place? The intention is to run it on green gas if that makes a difference? Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 np i never had that problem with any of my glocks have you tried cleaning and lubing them a stronger recoil spring will make it harder to cycle the slide but you can try it by using a spacer to pre-tension the spring who knows it might help after all i use yellow gas so i like to think that the 2 hours that i spend installing the hammer spring wasn't wasted Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 The words "workhorse" and "upgrade" rarely sit well together. If you intend to fit a metal slide to a G17 you will NEED a stronger recoil spring or the slide moves terribly sluggishly, to the point where it sometimes even fails to go back into battery for the next shot. As you say, fitting a stronger recoil spring can mean that the slide doesn't go all the way back after each shot and sometimes won't lock back on empty. If this is your problem then you will need a high-flow valve for each mag. This will allow more gas to come out of the mag with each shot and help your blowback cycle properly. It'll also use more gas per shot and can dramatically reduce the number of shots you get from each fill of gas. I happen to have a KSC G17 fitted with a G&P metal slide and a Guarder enhanced recoil spring/rod. It works fine with no other modifications all through summer and Autumn. In winter it still cycles the slide far enough to pick up BBs but sometimes doesn't lock the slide back on empty. It's VERY important that you have a decent metal slide on your KSC G17. I've seen a variety of G17s and G18s with the chinese slides on (the ones with trademarks in white) that have suffered numerous problems with cycling. Whenever I see this I always simply replace the slide with my G&P slide and the gun works perfectly. The chinese G17 slides are junk. The irony there being that the metal slide fitted to the famous G19 is made by the same people and they have a terrific record for reliability. But, yeah.... Get a G17 with a decent quality slide and a Guarder enhanced recoil spring/rod and then, if you want to use the gun in winter, get high-flow valves for each mag. Note that you can improve the flow of a normal valve by enlarging the gas ports or dremelling away the metal between the ports. Up to you if you want to try that before spending cash on high-flow valves. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 hes planning to buy a glock that has a metal slide stock so the spring is designed for that heavier slide from my experience they work great ksc is made in Taiwan and there is nothing wrong with there slide it might be that some ksc glocks have different slide there are the ones with real glock marking and fake marking i guessed that it where just different trades but it could be that there is a difference in quality Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 hes planning to buy a glock that has a metal slide stock so the spring is designed for that heavier slide from my experience they work great ksc is made in Taiwan and there is nothing wrong with there slide it might be that some ksc glocks have different slide there are the ones with real glock marking and fake marking i guessed that it where just different trades but it could be that there is a difference in quality Personally, I wouldn't buy a KSC Glock with a factory-fitted metal slide. The ones with white trademarks are the low-quality chinese slides. At best, the trademarks are wrong. Glocks do NOT have white trademarks. At worst it'll make the gun unreliable. Far better to buy a cheaper pistol and then fit a decent metal slide made by somebody like Prime or G&P. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I would dissagree and recomend you get a KWA or KSC that comes with a metal slide out of the box and use it on green gas. For close range work no upgrades are needed. just make sure to keep it clean and you will go through hundreds of thousands of rounds before it fails. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 ed is wright mine hasn't failed not even when it fel in a puddle of mud and i stepped on it or when it fell into the sand the trades are wrong but the difference is so small that you can only notice it by looking verry closely and the real ones aren't white but i think it looks better in white Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I would dissagree and recomend you get a KWA or KSC that comes with a metal slide out of the box and use it on green gas. For close range work no upgrades are needed. just make sure to keep it clean and you will go through hundreds of thousands of rounds before it fails. Fair comment regarding green gas. Using a KSC Glock with a metal slide, green gas or propane is a must. Still think the slides with white trademarks are cheap rubbish though. KSC DO sell some models of Glock with metal slides with realistic (unfilled) trades so perhaps those are better quality? Anyway, take your pick. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Enhanced hammer spring? Hi output floating valve? Rocket Valve? Enhanced recoil spring? Anything else I should go for/avoid? When people use green gas in hot weather (like in Hong Kong most of the year), the pressure of the gas makes the valve harder to open. Sometimes the valve won't open at all or will open only partially. That's when you need a stronger hammer spring. Other than that it's just something people use to get more fps out of their pistol. It wears other parts (sear, hammer) out more quickly, can hinder slide movement and so on. Normally, avoid. High flow valves and floating valves are different. HF-valves are unnecessary most of the time. Remember, the original design was made for a far lower operating pressure. Simply using green gas / propane is already a significant upgrade to the gas output. This is another part people use to gain muzzle velocity. If the slide isn't going all the way back, the problem is most likely elsewhere. Normally, avoid. If you want to save money, you can port the original valves. Rocket valve (aka. floating valve aka. switch valve aka. cylinder bulb...) This one is recommended for the KSC/KWA Glocks. The old ones tend to snap when you use green gas. One of the most common parts to break. Enhanced recoil spring. Pretty much covered already. If the spring your gun comes with is able to push the slide all the way forward when you point the gun up, it's strong enough for the purpose. Any additional strength you might want depends on your personal preference. You can use a spacer on the spring guide to add a bit more tension to the original one. In general I side with Stealthbomber on this issue: unnecessary or the wrong combination of upgrades reduce reliability. As a workhorse KSC/KWA Glock I'd get one that comes with a metal slide (which are decent if you don't mind the unrealistic trades) and add the rocket valve. Cheers, Sale Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 This is a back up for very close range only, within rooms etc. Range is not really needed, but reliability. ... not be some super FPS sniper pistol! There are two resons why you upgrade a pistol. the first is to fix a gun that the manufacturer didnt make properly, this is not an issue with KSC or KWA pistols, certainly the glocks. The other is to get the pistol to range or outrange AEGs in woodland IE "FPS sniper pistol" as you put it. Therefore, you need no upgrades. Any semi auto KSC/KWA glock will serve you well. I stand by my recomendation of one that comes factory fitted with a metal slide, and the use of green gas. Link to post Share on other sites
heikis Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 dont know if it has been mentioned already, but a Guarder Steel Magazine Catch is compulsory. the stock plastic catch will wear down real soon. also i recommend getting a Firefly Rocket Valve for KSC G17 / G18C / G34. the stock plastic could snap within the first shots.. or it could last you thousands. better pay the price and get the firefly, available at http://www.wgcshop.com if you buy the gun with a metal slide already installed then it already features a stronger recoil spring. hope i was of any help. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 dont know if it has been mentioned already, but a Guarder Steel Magazine Catch is compulsory. the stock plastic catch will wear down real soon. Another good point. Funny thing, I fitted a Guarder mag catch in my G17 simply cos it was part of the "shopping list" but I've actually still got the original plastic mag catch in my G19 and my G18c so I dunno just how "compulsory" it actually is after all. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Mag catches dont wear out that quickly, though they can do. I have seen one gun that was over 5 years old before the mag catch started to cause trouble. I have NEVER ever ever seen a floating valve break, and i have seen many highly abused guns. Link to post Share on other sites
jagillham Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks for all the input guys! As usual in the world of airsoft, there are a lot of divided opinions! Does anybody know if any of these on Fire Support are hi-flow valves (for mags!)? CAW/Mosquito (Magazine Valve) KSC Fire Fly (Mag Valve) for KSC ex TMP & STI Fire Fly (Cylinder Valve) for KSC Glock Link to post Share on other sites
jkpics Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 This is my list of parts for making a KSC Glock 17 Start with a KSC Glock 34C HW, nice heavy grip G&P Slide and parts (maybe the new PGC stuff looks good) Guarder mag catch KM inner barrel KA valve Link to post Share on other sites
fal Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I have owned many KSC glocks and upgraded many. Here are my suggestions. Frist of all, start with metal slide version of glocks. Original plastic slides are fragile. They don't last long. Soon they develope cracks at the left side of rear part of the slide. Enhanced hammer spring? No. Don't need it. Hi output floating valve? Yes. will help, but not necessary. Rocket Valve? No. Don't need it. Enhanced recoil spring? Yes. neccessary. Hurricane or G&P is good for good price. Whatever you do, don't get Zenith recoil springs. I hardly would call them "reinforced." Other things, KSC glocks works best with 0.3g or heavier BBs in terms of accuracy. So much for the range if it is inaccurate. If you don't mind the size, 49round high capacity magazines are awesome. Don't get night sights made for airsoft replica. Fix real trijicon if you can afford. Airsoft night sights are not very good for aiming due to imperfection. Tightbore will sacrifice your accuracy for fps. I have experimented with stock innerbarrel, KM 6.04mm and PDI 6.01. Conclusion was stock innerbarrel for the win. Don't bother with aftermarket grips. Transplanting the spring for magazine release switch isn't easy job if you don't have proper tools. Do not attempt with average motorised hand drill or hammer and a nail. It doesn't work. Also you will start having other problems such as slide release lock unlocking itself etc. Also you will have problem with magazine movement inside grip and when in use with extended magazine the moulding push valve open for very brief moment when you insert it. I highly recommend adjustable sights from glock34. Although it isn't favoured by many shooters, it actually gives you chance to zero your weapon. Stock KSC glock sights are slightly off zero and only way to fix it is by adjustable sights from glock 34. If you can get heavy weight version (japanese version obviously) over metal slided tiwanese version. HW glocks are *fruitcage* awesome. One thing to note with any japanese version or plastic slided KSC glocks is that first thing you want to do out of box, is super glue/epoxy glue front sight. Or else you will soon lose your ability to aim your pistol. While slide is locked back and slamming magazine in will unlock the slide itself. Some belive this is a feature of glocks. It isn't. This can be remedied by carefly bending slide lock release lever where it contacts magazine BB follower. Experiment it carefuly and you will get there. Do not install Airsoft Surgeon slides. They are too tight and not that much of a special either. It needs quite a bit of modding to work smooth as well. And easily scratched. G&P slides are fine but they are fatter. Once you fit this, holstering moulded holster such as BHI SERPA will be very tight. I mean VERY tight. If you ended up getting HW KSC glocks and want to put metal slide on it, put taiwanese one. Cheap but works best out of the light. Weight difference between this casted cheap metal slide vs CNC machined aluminium slides are none. They are same. I measured it myself. PGC is my favourite brand of metal slide makers. Because they have closest dimension to orignal stock slide. What this means is easy fitment and smooth operation just like out of box product. I personally do not have PGC slide for KSC glocks, only with TM 1911/hicapa series and TM Glocks. But I would assume this would be the same for KSC glocks. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites
Travis_2 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Someone did a whole review on all the rocket valves. Basically, firefly seemed best. Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Bearing in mind I want the thing to work close range consistently for a good length of time, not be some super FPS sniper pistol! Thanks in advance! James James, this is going to sound incredibly sarcastic but please understand I have 6 ksc Glocks. I have spent a fortune & lots of time in an attempt to maximize their performance. My advice is to get a Marui one. Turn the hop up, feed it .3's + green & LEAVE IT STOCK. I think that if you do that, you'll find, that this is exactly, what you are looking for. A vary accurate, reliable skirmish tool. Left stock, it is unlikely to go wrong, giving years of reliability. Using the .3's, on green, with hop adjusted correctly, you can expect 50m kills. More importantly for your cqbing, a crisp trigger response & very fast cycle rate. The .3's will help to ensure opfors feel their hits, even though it will chrono under 300fps with .2's. This is by no means a slur on ksc's, but for what you describe as your requirements, I think the Marui will be better. At the very least it will be cheaper & require no effort in upgrading. Greg. Link to post Share on other sites
gisburn20 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 My advice is to get a Marui one. quoted for truth matey! I've had most of the KSC range of glocks, built some from scratch, repaired some "dead" ones too. The only one I've kept since I bought a TM G17 is a little KSC G26c (my daughter loves it!) TM glocks are the best as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that goes wrong with them is when people "upgrade" them. They have great range and accuracy, very cold resistant, the mags are a dream to fill (load from the bottom- read the instructions...) you can actually buy hop rubber for them (any that fit a VSR-10) you try getting hop spares for a KSC... The only upgrades I put in my TM G17 were a guarder aluminium slide (drop in fit- very nice) and a "glock plug" link it will outshoot most pistols (except the legendary TM MK23 NBB) and takes a lot of abuse. Most reliable bit of kit I've ever bought. The look I got from a guy with an aeg when I popped him in the goggles at 20m.... Priceless! Jim Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 quoted for truth matey! Thus far. I think the KSC syst7 stuff I've seen is as accurate as the Marui's, with loads more power. (USP Match, etc.) It amazed me that the Glock wasn't the first KSC to go syst7. As yet there is no news on this. If/when they do it, they will, I am sure, be back in the game. Until then, go Marui. Greg. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.