14 replies to this topic

[RacingManiac]

http://www.arms-cool.net/forum/thread-65575-1-1.html
http://www.ksc-guns.co.jp/mainnb.html

I guess its not entirely a surprise, since KWA's been showing off theirs. But unlike KWA's AEG M4s, the fact that there is a KSC version means its unlikely that its a copy of an existing design......

The plot thickens....

[Megalomaniac]

I assumed for the date they were announced that they are a new design, hopefully the operate with the same quality as KSC/KWA pistols do.

[aznriptide859]

Allizard has stated before that KWA is the OEM for KSC, so their guns are the same. There may be small modifications internally for different markets, similar to the MP7.

[RacingManiac]

Usually the KSC stuff comes out before KWA though, where as no one knew KSC was making GBBR until now....

Though KWA's AEG was their own thing and had nothing to do with KSC...which if KSC didn't announce they are making GBBR I'd almost assume that being the case again since the market is there for GBBR, and KWA would just make some kind of WA-ish gun. But now that there is a KSC counter part it means that they are playing in the Japanese market so they would have to be different from WA...

[uscmCorps]

KSC is pretty much entirely dependent nowadays on KWA for not just manufacturing capabilities, but also design as all of KSC's designers now work at KWA. This is probably the KWA gun for the Japanese market. Although stated as a design all their own, seeing the product in person we got the impression the KWA gun is a WA based design that has had all the specs adjusted just enough to ensure that the gun will pass through US customs and therefore not accept most RS parts (including pistol grips) and WA parts. That is simply the impression we got though, from a cursory inspection of the gun. It might be significantly different from WA and indeed wholly their own design ... but we couldn't tell how exactly. Allizard mentioned that the true innovation was in how they approached the magazine and that they're able to make the gun capable of shooting with no cool down ... but the video I saw of it on Airsoftology still showed significant cool down.

[l96ninja]

KSC is pretty much entirely dependent nowadays on KWA for not just manufacturing capabilities, but also design as all of KSC's designers now work at KWA.

So then what's the difference between KWA and KSC? I always thought one was made in Japan and the other was made in Taiwan, and they just shared ideas. Do KSC pistols have the same Japanese QC that TM uses to create reliable products, where as KWA just tries for power?

Edited by l96ninja, 25 June 2010 - 07:03 PM.

[Stealthbomber]

KSC is pretty much entirely dependent nowadays on KWA for not just manufacturing capabilities, but also design as all of KSC's designers now work at KWA.

So then what's the difference between KWA and KSC? I always thought one was made in Japan and the other was made in Taiwan, and they just shared ideas. Do KSC pistols have the same Japanese QC that TM uses to create reliable products, where as KWA just tries for power?

Back in "the old days", KWA was, basically, simply the factory which made stuff for KSC, in much the same way Ares made stuff for Star.

Then KWA decided that that fancied a slice of the retail action rather than just getting paid to make stuff for KSC.

Seems that, as uscmcorps says, these days it's a far more symbiotic relationship.
KWA has a product range that isn't simply rebranded KSC stuff and, in the case of the KWA MP7 at least, it seems as though it was a KWA project which KSC asked for a chance to get involved with.

I guess we'd really need to be told (from somebody at KWA or KSC) who actually commisioned the GBBR M4 project but, regardless of who started it, it's likely the KSC and KWA guns will be based on the same design but with detail differences.

*EDIT*
Interesting to see a Magpul-branded FPG on the KSC website.

I wonder if they've done some kind of deal whereby in return for supplying the parts needed for PTS to build complete FPGs they've been given permission to sell an FPG of their own?

[ReDgUaRd008]

All of KWA/KSC Guns are OEMed in Taiwan by KWA. Feel free to add or correct the following list.


KWA Guns
* Shooting from 300-350 FPS which is set for the US/Europe Market
* Have RS/KWA trades depending were they are imported too
* Metal Slide
* Use Green/Propane Gas


KSC Guns
* Shoots under 1.2J which is for the Japanese/Asian Market
* Have RS trades
* Plastic Slide
* Use HFC 134A/Computer duster Gas

[RacingManiac]

There is also a KSC Taiwan, which are like KWA guns with trades.....

Cool down IMO is just a side effect of these things, it'll be hard to avoid. The best thing KSC/KWA can do is make reliable mag. WA has some, but costs a lot, and most of their mag aren't rated for propane(HD/Super does work though)....

Edited by RacingManiac, 25 June 2010 - 10:31 PM.

[fal]

ksc hopup = meh.

Where are you marui.

[Guges Mk3]

GBBR's is not TM's market...they are a Japan only maker...they don't care about outsiders unfortunately.

Edited by Guges Mk3, 04 July 2010 - 01:09 AM.

[IronWolf]

GBBR's is not TM's market...they are a Japan only maker...they don't care about outsiders unfortunately.

Yet companies like WA, KSC & Tanio Koba are distributing GBBR's in the Japanese market...

[RacingManiac]

Problem is Marui has their own competing technology in their EBB(which apparently works ok). And seeing they are expanding their line to more ARs, G36, and AK, it'll be a slap in their own face to make GBBR.....

Although they did end up making G18C GBB when they had a AEP G18.....but then in that case they had a GBB Glock system made and making a select fire version was relatively less work...

[DiscoBiscuit]

Problem is Marui has their own competing technology in their EBB(which apparently works ok). And seeing they are expanding their line to more ARs, G36, and AK, it'll be a slap in their own face to make GBBR.....

Although they did end up making G18C GBB when they had a AEP G18.....but then in that case they had a GBB Glock system made and making a select fire version was relatively less work...

EBB is a different market segment, I don't think they would be cannabalizing their customer base. If they create a competitive product that is embraced by the GBBR market, I don't see how this would hurt them. Also, since their hop-up has such a great following they would have an immediate advantage out of the gate as one of the main complaints seems to be the crappy hops on these GBBRs. Not to mention TM's reputation is more solid than the current batch of GBBR manufacturers. I say go for it TM.

[D-JHapyMeal]

Heres a vid of the KSC