Finbarqs Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 http://en.ratech.com.tw/product/html/rag/rag_custome_work/custome_work_ra/custome_work_ra_detail/custome_work_ra003.php apparently, they have a forged receiver as well, that DOESN'T have that forge line! Not crazy into the trades, but worth looking! Link to post Share on other sites
hawaiianjuggernaut Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah RA-TECH is really expensive. But their guns are insane. I had the honor of shooting on of their WE GBB M14EBR rifles. ($1200 USD, Used) it was amazing. Granted it was shooting 600fps (too hot for most fields) but it was CRAZY Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah RA-TECH is really expensive. They're not that expensive compared to the competition - the only other forged-receiver GBBRs (in fact, I think just the only other forged receivers full stop) are Inokatsu's and those are near-as-makes-no-difference $1k, and that's without RA-Tech's 3-burst kit and other assorted upgrade parts. To bring an Inokatsu up to the same spec as this in terms of moving parts would cost you a minimum of $1500, two-and-a-half times the cost of this rifle. Plus, as Finbarqs points out... apparently, they have a forged receiver as well, that DOESN'T have that forge line! ... Inokatsu's M4 has a monumentally horrible forging line right down the centre of the lower receiver, and none of us has ever figured out why (have we?). All in all it looks cool but even with a forged body for $600 I want more convincing trades than that. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I'm actually quite interested in one of these... When it comes to the trademarks, sure they're not 100% but they're believable enough for me. For $600 I'd call that a damned good deal as well... To get a G&P WOC with the steel guts, if you can find one that isn't a silly stubby model, costs a good $5-600. This should fill that gap in the market nicely. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 If they are all steel internals that could be damn interesting! Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Pretty certain they should be, RA-Tech don't make anything other than steel WA FCG's as far as I'm aware, and they're 3 round burst kit is steel when bought separately. I am le excited. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Possibly a highly reliable GBBR? Shall wait excitedly for reviews! Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Possibly a highly reliable GBBR? Shall wait excitedly for reviews! Assuming RA-Tech build it properly it almost certainly will be - a WA system M4 that's been properly filled with steel is an awesome machine. The RA-Tech hop and rubber is very good, and assuming you feed it Pro-win V2's or G&P Pmags and they're compatible, it's likely to be a tank of a gun. The more I read this thread, the more excited I'm getting about it... Link to post Share on other sites
Nath Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 If this works reliable with GHK Co2 mags, that would be an instant win for me. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaFlash Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 It's a pretty good price for what it is. I don't know how much I'd trust the RATech steel carrier, my experience with them has been terrible but I hear they make them for INO these days; and my older Ino carrier is quite good. I don't know who's receiver they are using, could be a Viper Tech, or they could have taken an Ino and machined off the forge marks, blasted it and anodized it. RATech's hopup rubber is good for short barrels, on my 16" barrel it sends .40g BB's to the moon at 300fps. I'd rather have a G&P hop up at anything longer than a 10.5" barrel. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 For me its all down to internals and if they will transplant them into other rifles. SCAR, G36 etc.. If every single solitary peice in the TMH & BGC are steel then im happy but one peice of pot metal and somthing will go wrong! Ive never been a fan of RA-Tech rubbers theyve never worked as well as Falcons IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaFlash Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 For me its all down to internals and if they will transplant them into other rifles. SCAR, G36 etc.. If every single solitary peice in the TMH & BGC are steel then im happy but one peice of pot metal and somthing will go wrong! Ive never been a fan of RA-Tech rubbers theyve never worked as well as Falcons IMO. All steel doesn't make a good product. A pot metal bolt stop housing creates no problem. On the other hand, RATech's low quality steel bolt carrier gives you a product that may not last longer than a G&P pot metal carrier. RATech's o-rings are also terrible. Yet for some reason it's too difficult for people to spend $5 to order 50 good o-rings online, they'll pay $0.50 per o-ring plus shipping to get more or RATech's problem o-rings. And I don't know how you think they'll get WA based GBB internals into a G36 or SCAR, but it does give you something to hope for. All in all, I"m sure this is a decent products; I'd rather have a Bomber SR16E3. Link to post Share on other sites
amblin83 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Funny that i think INOK's well aware of the forge lines and they left it there anyway . I own a 2011 Inok M4 and i'm sure that those're not just simple left over forging lines as result of poor manufacturing or careless Q/C. They even polished and sanded the lines in front of the mag well and in the trigger housing so it's a perfect smooth and even surface... makes me wonder, why the hassle?! what the hell?! Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Funny that i think INOK's well aware of the forge lines and they left it there anyway My 2012 Inokatsu M4A1 SOPMOD Block II fund continues to grow, but before I spend it I WILL be asking about that line. If I can't have it milled off it could be a no-sale problem... Link to post Share on other sites
amblin83 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Metal Forging is not rocket science after all, it's only a matter of time before more and more brands jump into this field. RealSword is also making a GBBR M4 with forged receivers. Considering their semi-military background, i'd say it is very promising. But so far the Inok is still the best GBBR M4-ish i ever owned or tried, rock solid, smooth and surface treatment is spot on. I live by water and the salty, high humidity atmosphere is the perfect testing ground for anti-corrosion treatments. Most of my steel G&P, HE parts will rust or turn 'reddish' in under 3 months if left without proper regular services. But the Inok, it's still doing fine. With more and more 'steel' parts being dumped into our gears nowdays, proper surface treatment is very important. For example, i once brought an original ARMS #18 mount for my TM M14,the mount is steel with mil-spec anti-corrosion treatment. Then a cheapo steel replica #18 mount because the RS spec screw won't fit the TM's sh!tty alloy receiver and i needed the special screw from the replica. Now after all the years, the ARMS still look like new, but the cheapo rusted like a pre-Victorian bucket. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaFlash Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 It's not about metal forging being "difficult" or "complex". It's expensive. You need to commit to producing a lot of units. If there are any issues with it, you're still out your tooling costs. I don't think anyone understands Ino's forge line, but they probably just give it a media bath and anodize it. Link to post Share on other sites
vilerk Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT4_wa0caU4&list=UUphhhDYMYfLbRwGrtewurdg&index=1&feature=plcp It looks like they're using the INO 2011 BCG with their NPAS installed. The color of the nozzle and the weight in the bolt carrier give it away. So maybe they actually are the OEM? Their new short mags cost $50 USD, could barely find it on their website as my antivirus keeps trying to disconnect me because of a trojan... The gun shoots worryingly sluggish though... Kinda defeats the purpose of burst don't you think? Link to post Share on other sites
ThaFlash Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 It's interesting, they claim the rail is also "forged", most places will CNC to save costs, or even CNC from an extrusion. That BCG definitely looks INO, the finish of the whole setup is very INO. I've heard RATech is their OEM for the new BCG's, nothing concrete but I can buy it. The INO BCG would be perfect with an NPAS valve, at least my old one would have been, it was the version with the weight in the back; just remove the weight. I think they're sacrificing cyclic speed for weight, which does not always result in high perceived recoil. I feel that a faster recoil can often feel more violent than a more weighty push. The best balance I've found is a Prime lightened steel carrier, RATech aluminum NPAS bolt (or IA bolt), and fine tune with the buffer/spring. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Looks to have the ROF of a .50 Browning as stock. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 See personally I've never felt the need for a steel BCG; I'm using stock G&P BCG's and Nozzle assemblies, of which I've got 3 - The original has done 8-9,000 rounds on a steel bolt catch and still locks back every time, and the other 2 have done a good 3-4,000 each. There's also plenty of space to dremel the surface flat again, and the perceived recoil is awesome. It's extremely crisp and quick. Personally I'd just end up dropping a G&P bolt in it and chop the inner barrel... Instant UK skirmishable WA M4. I just hope it takes G&P Pmags 'n all.. Link to post Share on other sites
amblin83 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 It's interesting, they claim the rail is also "forged", most places will CNC to save costs, or even CNC from an extrusion. Hmm.. the entire rail system? That'd be interesting indeed. Because i so heard the real deal KAC rails are CNC'ed from just blocks of aero-aluminium. No forging invlolved. It's not necessary. Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I think he's misinterpreting what the RA Tech man said, he didn't particularly imply the rail was forged but made by RA Tech Link to post Share on other sites
Finbarqs Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 looks pretty awesome! too bad about the trades.. if this was colt... I'd almost wanna say heck yeah! Maybe a 6920? or whatever does 3 round burst! This could be an awesome gun that everyone is hoping for... ROF is a little slow, but 3 round burst doesn't matter... pop in co2 (hopefully it'll work well with GHK's) and it'll cure the ROF! Link to post Share on other sites
ThaFlash Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think he's misinterpreting what the RA Tech man said, he didn't particularly imply the rail was forged but made by RA Tech Starting at 0:17 into the video he says : "We have a upper and lower receiver, they are forged. And so does the handguard." I don't know what else anyone would want to "interpret" from that. Clearly his English isn't the greatest, but considering the circumstances either he is claiming the hand guard is forged or he doesn't really know what forged means, in which case are the receivers really forged? Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteHawksan Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 in this case I would interpret that as "We [RA Tech] have a upper and a lower reciever, they are forged, and so does handguard." We have our own upper and lower receiver, which is forged, and the handguard is our own too. Which would make more sense. Link to post Share on other sites
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