TM/KJW 1911 - Poor performance when grip safety depressed (!?)

[NonEx]

Hey guys,

 

Yes, this is regarding my RA Kimber but I didn't want to put that in the title because I figured it might scare people off.

 

So basically I need help figuring out this problem I am having.

 

The gun functions fine, except if I depress the grip safety completely. When I do that, the hammer appears to fall with alot less force, causing a light-strike on the valve knocker.

 

If I ease of on the grip safety, only lightly depressing it, bare minimum the gun fires and cycles like a beast!

 

I had this problem right out of the box with stock parts, but since I disassembled it before firing it I figured I might have misaligned the BBU or muzzle or something, but I think this is actually why.

 

I have tried with my upgrade parts and stock parts, and the problem is the same with both, but slightly better with the stock parts.

 

Here is a list of what I have installed;

 

NOVA Hammer

NOVA Hammer strut

NOVA Sear

NOVA Grip Safety

NOVA Thumb Safety

NOVA Mainspring Housing

Airsoft Surgeon Disconnector

Airsoft Surgeon Valve Reset Knocker

Shooters Design Valve Knocker

 

 

 

On a related note, here is some more info:

 

If I cock the hammer and engage the thumb safety, the grip safety can move freely with only the force of the spring tension.

 

When I drop the thumb safety without touching the grip safety, it drops freely and feels fine.

 

However, if I have the grip safety depressed when I drop the thumb safety, the thumb safety is really mushy and with some resistance to push down, and the grip safety, before my last filing session, stuck in the depressed position.

 

Once I push the thumb safety up again, the grip safety comes loose and works fine again.

 

 

 

Hmmm... now that I think about it, what I mentioned in the video. The hammer strut. Maybe I need to file down the track in the grip safety for the hammer strut...

 

 

Here is the YouTube video of the problem:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoQGA0Ist7Y

 

And here is the description for the video:

 

Hey guys, calling out to all 1911 techs!

 

I am having issues with the performance of the gun if the grip safety is fully depressed! I have had this issue since I got it even with the stock parts. Something is causing the hammer to not drop with full force if the grip safety is fully depressed, or really, more than just bare minimum. Check out the video for more info.

 

I have attempted to fit these parts to the best of my abilities, which isn't very well to say the least. The whole reason I got the RA Kimber was that I excpected it to be fully pimped and tuned upon delivery so I wouldn't have to deal with this type of stuff.

 

I am not very good with fitting and tuning parts. I get frustrated and confused and file and modify the wrong parts in desperation, often ending in parts that are useless. I know, it's stupid, and I know that as I do it, but I still do it. And that is why I don't want to do it!

 

But now I am forced to, so please help me figure this out!

 

I will have to buy new parts and fit them properly once I figure out how, where and why they need to be fit and modified... Expensive hobby this is :|

 

Apologies for the video and audio quality.

 

And oh yeah, the gun is SUPER loud, the mic cuts out before you get to hear the full sound, my god, it is a beast at full power! Now I want that ON EVERY SINGLE TRIGGER PULL!

[mimesis]

Given that it starts with the grip safety, I'd look at what the grip safety immediately affects.

 

It it possible that the channel for the hammer strut is not deep enough, and so when the safety is fully depressed, the strut is binding on the bottom of the channel.

 

The other thing is the leaf spring. When you fully depress the grip safety, you push further in the finger of the leaf spring (left) that corresponds to it. My experience is that one finger heavily depressed also affects the other two, especially the middle one, the one that controls the hammer sear. There may be something going on with that.

[kenxin]

nice recoil.....

 

Anyways, I agree, if when you fully depress the grip safety it light strikes my guess would be the hammer strut being too tight in the nova grip safety. Check for scratches to the hammer strut.

 

With steel internals (heavier) I doubt the leaf spring is doing anything noticeable ....but who knows.

[NonEx]

Hmmm.. yeh maybe it is the dang strut. The thing is, when I have the grip safety depressed and fire the gun, I can physically feel the grip safety being forced out by something... So I guess either the spring or the strut falling into position agian.

 

Do you guys have any idea where one could find "biting paper", like the one the dentist uses to check where your teeth are biting down together. Maybe it's just transfer paper like in a cheque book to get a paper copy. Maybe that could work to put in there and see what is rubbing up against what.

[hitmanNo2]

Just hope it's something as simple to fix as the strut.

[NonEx]

Yeh... Like I said in the video comment, this is exactly what I didn't want to end up doing when buying the RA Kimber. Was hoping for a fully upgraded, fitted and tuned pistol out of the box. I am not cut out to be a gun smith... Can't wrap my head around it sometimes, but I still get stuck with it trying to fix it, and not knowing why or how, I end up *fruitcage* up parts... Just noticed the grip safety is out of stock atm. Probably for the better so I can figure out the actual problem before I get another one to break

 

Maybe I forgot to mention it in this thread but the problem is present with the stock KJW parts as well, including the strut, grip safety and trigger safety. Don't think the RA guys did a very good job checking it before sending it out :|

[kenxin]

Instead of trying the biting paper, just take out the hammer (with the strut) and test-fit it with the grip safety, see if it goes perfectly or if there is indeed resistance.

 

Also, you can assemble everything but the thumb safety, that way you can actually see the insides and test-fire .(that way you can also rule out some sort of problem with that).

[NonEx]

Thanks for the tip man! I will check out all these tips this weekend when I can sit down, relaxed, and take a look at things.

[WhiteHawksan]

it sounds like your strut is too far back, this means when you depress the grip safety it is pushing the other 2 leaves too far forward, try bending it a little more 'flat' to the leaf spring.

 

As has been said, you can test this by assembling it without the thumb safety and firing it from there, if it still light strikes the problem is elsewhere.

[Inari]

The lads above are probably right, but to me it sounds like a sear/leaf spring issue. I remember a lad bringing a 1911 to me the would fire if you flicked the trigger on the side, held the grip safety too firmly, or told the gun it was fat (over-exaggerated for comic effect ). The sear/leaf spring was bent out of shape - reshaped it and reseated it and voila, functioning 1911.

 

Personally I would start with sear/leaf spring due to its relative ease, and then move toward the hammer strut. The equivalent of checking the fuse to be honest. You could end up giving yourself more hassle than you need.

 

PS: Lovely looking gun by the way!

[NonEx]

Hey guys,

 

I figured it out today, here is a video update of the cause of the problem:

 

http://youtu.be/AdHlkjm4eSQ

 

Hopefully you can tell I have a new camera and lens, look at that beautiful HD video

Nikon D600 with 50mm f1.8

 

 

 

And here is a video of the results:

 

[kenxin]

Good job! I couldn't help but notice.... the trigger travel sucks : S you gotta have that trigger looked at....

 

anyways, enjoy that toy man : ) you earned it (with tons and tons of money....)

[NonEx]

Thanks!

 

Yeah... The trigger does feel weird but I don't know why. Too much travel before it engages, right ? However, due to the super light spring I can't really tell when it's starting to engage or not... I dunno, I kind of like it but then again now, zero feedback in the trigger.

 

What would you say would be a good trigger, in terms of force and where it engages and breaks etc ?

 

Not only earned it with money, but blood, sweat and tears, I *fruitcage* HATE fitting parts!

[hitmanNo2]

Yeah, that's the beauty of a tuned 1911 trigger. Minimal travel before sear disengagement. Does it not have an over travel adjustment screw?

[NonEx]

Yes it does. I did screw that in but I think it works it's way forward again by the force of trigger pull and recoil. Will have to lock-tite it I guess.

 

But how does one shorten the travel before it engages? What needs to be tuned ? One of the leaf spring prongs ?

 

 

Do you guys think I am a terrible person for scratching up my NOVA parts?

 

I want to be careful and take care of the stuff but it's so damn easy to slip with the tools. How do you guys manage to not slip and scratch stuff etc ? :|

[kenxin]

the 1911 trigger is a complicated thing to master....I'd advise caution because it's very hard to fine tune.

 

The leaf spring controls 2 things (trigger wise) the pre-travel and reset force (right prong if the left one is the grip safety one) and the center controls the pressure applied to the sear (the pull weight, for the most part).

 

the balance between these two has to be right, if the center prong is too forward, the sear might be doing too much force and the trigger won't reset properly (double trigger issue), same if the right prong is too bent backwards.

 

If the right prong is too far back, the thing might go full auto from time to time (hell I'd do that for the sake of it).

 

Ok, now the fun, trigger tunning time:

 

The right prong should do very little pressure and the center one will control the weight, the more pressure it adds, the cleaner the break will be (if the sear is appropiately tunned) but the heavier the pull will be.

 

The perfect balance should be the point were you feel an absolute resistance (not mushy, where you can still squeeze and feel the sear progressively disengage) and then, the moment you apply a little more extra pressure, bang, the sear disengages cleanly.

 

If you have the Airsoft Surgeon leaf spring you have already a pretty good model to copy, you just have to adjust it a little further according to your needs.

 

I won't enter in sear polishing stuff, the trigger stuff is already complex enough as is.

[NonEx]

Sounds like I should leave that for next year or so... Right now I just wanna enjoy

The trigger pull is nice and even all the way through but there is no break to speak of, it just goes off.

 

I just have to add, regarding the video quality, the first video I posted today, causes, the color reproduction of the camera and lens are absolutely amazing, looks exactly like it did when I filmed it. YUMMZ!

 

Also filmed some more footage this weekend that will be going online during the week

 

RS Kimber Royal II vs. RA Kimber Royal II, parts (shapes and styles)

 

RA Tech steel parts overview

 

RA Kimber Royal field strip, cleaning, lubrication and re-assembly

 

So look forward to that