NeoVeNoM Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvMIVxqtjQU&feature=player_embedded Looks like they're at it. No info about the manufacturer. BUt given the style I'd say WE. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Let us pray for HK3... but I think the TM will be the superior platform Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Give it a few more months and a WE made TM clone will be out, making this somewhat useless. Well apart from a possible source of cheap clone KWA mags, if it is a KWA clone (likely). 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Most probably clones of the TM platform will be made, but if this clone (the one in the video) is actually made by we/hk3, I dont think they will completly change their model anytime soon. Moreover, I dont know if there is any clone factory capable to start a new project of this caliber, maybe making spares or upgrade parts, but cloning a gun so different to the AK/M4 crowd... hard to believe.. My money is on the WE/HK3 KSC MP7 clone Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Seems like the most logical option. But then it isn't hard to believe that they would try to make one, seeing as the GBB SMG market is quite popular and the KWA is hardly the most abundant gun, compared to the MP9 they also make. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Aherm... Sherlock Holmes at your service; Same naming convention, in sequence... Odds of it being someone else, close to zero. Default naming of a new YouTube video is the filename, looks like a mobile phone or HD camcorder naming convention. Samsung Galaxy Tab P1000 possible source. ? WE cloning KSC all of a sudden, unlikely. WE basically have based all their guns om TM platform (exception being the M&P). I guess they got a hold of a TM MP7 a little early and have a head start. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Actually if you let the video run to the end you will find that the links to it are also common format used by that type of camera. Doesn't rule out the possibility of a WE design though. Also WE and others have cloned KSC / KWA, but unless they got a TM MP7 on Monday (release day if I recall rightly) and have, as of yesterday made a full clone copy sans sights then that is damn quick. Seeing it took them about a month to make a XDM copy I highly doubt it is a TM version. Maybe like the M&P it is a retrofit of bits from say a Glock 18c into the MP7 chassis? 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well duh, but what are the odds of some other cloning company using the exact same video device and having the same number sequence in order after the last videos, come on man... Like I said, it would be likely they had an advance copy of some sort of the TM. General population had release yesterday, airsoft indistry people, probably seen and had it before. Also why would they release videos of a suppesedly cloned KSC/KWA MP7 days after the TM release of the MP7. Feels like WE flexing their muscles almost. They don't *fruitcage* around. What models of KSC/KWA have WE cloned, I can't think of any ? Glock 18C in an MP7 body? The design differenses are so radical that it doesn't make much sense. Also, I can't think of any other company that would be able to pull this off... If you think about the products WE have produced and sold in the past 6-12 months, I think they have gathered some consideral R&D capital. Pushing out models and variations like crazy based on very few "original" designs, comes out to = good profit marigin = capital = R&D = new products. R&D being an analog for resources to clone and copy stuff Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 While I'm not disputing about this being a clone, what's to stop us from thinking that this is WE's own creation? They have made up their own system many times before no? Their AR series.. scar.. L85.. AK... p90 prototype.. svd... g36, those from my understanding, aren't clone, although it'd be silly not to clone TM for the mp7 for this though judging by how gas efficient / accurate the new one seems to be according to footages I've seen... Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hmm... Maybe that is possible. They know TMs future releases. They develop a sort of mock up internally, wait for TM release, refinish some parts and design to match TM and release. Or as with the M&P they got tired of waiting for TM and went with their own. Maybe they did something similar with the MP7... Time will tell. I dunno, considering that there have been MP7s on the market and that the TM MP7s has been confirmed for release for some time, I dunno. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I dont think WE has cloned the TM, its just tooooooo fast Its not so hard to believe WE cloned the KSC, they mostly clone TM because TM pistols might have some common or similar parts, but being a SMG so much different from a pistol, they didnt care if they made a clone from scratch with no common parts. They just were unfortunate to start developing it before the MP7 was announced, so they ar now stuck with a clone that might become obsolete or surpassed even before release. Anyway, this clone will sell, even if it is a source for spares or cheaper mags Link to post Share on other sites
Mike_West Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 There's one problem with it being WE. They operate legally and in the open, so Umarex may pull the same kind of BS Cybergun did earlier with the P90 GBB. "We release it for you after buying it for bubkes, or you don't release it at all." Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well duh, but what are the odds of some other cloning company using the exact same video device and having the same number sequence in order after the last videos, come on man... Like I said, it would be likely they had an advance copy of some sort of the TM. General population had release yesterday, airsoft indistry people, probably seen and had it before. Feels like WE flexing their muscles almost. They don't *fruitcage* around. What models of KSC/KWA have WE cloned, I can't think of any ? Glock 18C in an MP7 body? The design differenses are so radical that it doesn't make much sense. Quite possible, but then as WE have kind of powerhoused to the top of the clone movement. WE would get it the same time as general populance, unless they have had a person in the Japanese factory leaking designs. The closest WE would get before us is if they got a hold of one in a shop that did advanced orders, but then most of them would say no and the ones that do, along with most of them, would only get them a day or two before if at all. WE do mess about, they produce cheap guns that often have issues and when they need to go back to the drawing board they either ignore it and make a new gun, make a kit that you have to buy seperately or wait until they have run out of other ideas at the time and then look at it. Would rather time was put in than it turned up on my doorstep the next day. The G23 that they did, it was a kind of mish mash of bits by the look of it, not quite a KSC clone as it had a TM system but it did seem to have parts from them in it, so granted not a true cloning. Why not put GBB pistol internals in this MP7, it is about the right size, it is entrely possible with a bit of shaping and as others have said it isn't like WE haven't fit other stuff they have made into other guns to change it. It is always possible that WE could have decided, like the M&P that someone like TM is taking too long so why not jump on and make a clone ourselves. Think about it... 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I can't take most of the contents in the above post as anything but a joke. I especially like when you take one of my statements, paraphrase it into your own and try to use it as an argument against me. Well played sir... NOT. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 We doesn't always clone TM. The Browning Hi-Power and Luger P08 were copies of Tanaka also their long standing 1911 is a reworked Hi-Capa. Despite the actual TM 1911 being around for the longest time they still continue to make their own funky 1911. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I can't take most of the contents in the above post as anything but a joke. I especially like when you take one of my statements, paraphrase it into your own and try to use it as an argument against me. Well played sir... NOT. You truly worry me, but alas this is a page about the potential production of a TM or KSC clone by a company that may be WE, so I am just going to go back to discussing that and every time I see a post by you in this thread just rolling on past it. Should really have done that the first time around and not wasted my time, ah well my mistake. Still to everyone else, it being a straight up TM clone is very unlikely. To make a single prototype like this would take too much cash to do in a few days and to make a production run would be older than the WE release date. Perhaps, seeing as the metal is the sort of mazac TM stuff maybe it is a TM plastic bodied MP7 that has had the paint stripped, the sights removed and the words 'look we made this' slapped on it to put a bit of anticipation for the potential release that may or may not be coming in a month or two? It is hardly like a clone company to not use underhand methods to grab interest in a product. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I could say the same to you (about ignoring your posts), but I try to question and discuss with people on this forum (I think that is what it is for?), not posting generic nonsense about things. Hmm... Maybe that is possible. They know TMs future releases. They develop a sort of mock up internally, wait for TM release, refinish some parts and design to match TM and release. Or as with the M&P they got tired of waiting for TM and went with their own. Maybe they did something similar with the MP7... Time will tell. I dunno, considering that there have been MP7s on the market and that the TM MP7s has been confirmed for release for some time, I dunno. bla bla bla bla Why not put GBB pistol internals in this MP7, it is about the right size, it is entrely possible with a bit of shaping and as others have said it isn't like WE haven't fit other stuff they have made into other guns to change it. It is always possible that WE could have decided, like the M&P that someone like TM is taking too long so why not jump on and make a clone ourselves. Think about it... 'FireKnife' That right there my friend, is ###### on your part. Your move. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Wow, time to break one rule today then: You refuted putting GBB pistol internals like the Glock 18c in a design like the MP7, I pointed out that they could, using the idea that the M&P could be a Glock mock up to get one out before TM. All you did was put the same point I did, but I used it to point out the kind of internals that could be featured in the MP7, you just said it could be any old stuff. It is you admitting a point that you earlier mocked by using a point you later brought up. But as it is end of, if you really, really, really want to drag this out we have a thousand and one other threads that this could go into or even a PM system. However I am going to leave this thread as is. And again to the rest of you, seeing that the MP7 by TM seems to have a somewhat heavier recoil, judging by the videos they posted on 134a, and if this is WE they would be showcasing the thing clacking away on Green, it does seem to me that this, if it was a TM clone would be hammering along a lot heavier than the little jump that the video above gives. But then this is all speculation about a product we have no details on. It just seems that branding it right away as 'yeah definite TM clone' by anyone does seem a bit far fetched, even for a company like WE, but then time will tell. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 OK, this will also be my final post on this particular matter. What you are doing now is skewing yours and my words into fitting into your own story that you are trying to construct after the fact and being confronted, either that or your posts aren't very clear at all... Both of which are equally as bad. Link to post Share on other sites
DrAlexanderTobacco Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites
volante Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 TM have its parts manufacturing factories in China(they also have some in japan). Japan government allow to use 'Made in Japan' trademark on product that more than 50%(i'm not sure about this value but close)of its part been assembled in Japan only. So parts that manufactured in China have been imported to Japan and assembled. TM built factory in China to reduce cost but it seems TM gun's engineering information have been leaked out since then. I think that's why TM clones have been made so fast. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Strange, but then it also depends what parts are made where, if it is just the body and stock then that is fine as that is hardly enough to make a gun, but if they ae knocking out all the major internals in China then no wonder this exists and it is just another example of typical Chinese industrial espionage. I always thought TM were mostly (as in like 90% odd) made in Japan? 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Thanks for the info, interesting. TM must be making more money per pistol if they outsources to China, since the prices are the same or higher. Good business sense I guess. So it's not impossible that both WE M&P and this MP7 chould be stolen TM designs... Interesting indeed. Why can't the people posting those videos just tell us what the hell is up... Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Why can't the people posting those videos just tell us what the hell is up... As it is illegal? If they make something and don't say 'this is TM clone' that is fine, but if they do something may happen. I knew legallity of cloning may be a grey area in Chinese law but surely they wouldn't want to be punished for it if they could be (and after that Chinese crackdown a few years ago we got a good look of what can happen to people in Chinese factories making toy guns). While it would be nice to know, I can see why they just stick it up and don't claim it is a clone of a TM. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
kullwarrior Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I suspect those parts made in China are merely screws, pins, springs stuff that people commonly have it made in China. Slide, Frame and nozzle (airsoft specific parts) are most likely made in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.