An Update from James of WE Tech

[IBMedic]

A friend (Fiddlesticks) and I had a chance to speak with James of WE today and here are the highlights (some but not all of this information is available on the other thread on the Toy Fair):

1. WE acquired not one, but 2 facilities in Taiwan with CNC milling equipment.  Now all their pistol slides are extruded aluminum (James wanted to emphasize that they are NOT pot metal anymore) with milling to finish.  This is how they are able to achieve their tighter tolerances.

2. The frames on the pistols have a high fiberglass content, much higher than on Marui pistols.  This is thanks to them hiring out to a firm that specializes in such molding.  According to James, the Glock frame is strong enough to be run over by a small car.

3. The Katana AEG system's upper receiver is actually milled on the interior.  I had expressed doubt previously about the lockup design where only the cylinder locks into the lower receiver via the rear receiver pin.  I can happily say that my doubts on this were completely mistaken.  Thanks to the milling, the tolerances are near perfect, and there is no play between the lower and the upper once the pin is in (it's also a VERY tight fitting pin).

A SCAR H and HK 416 models are expected in the near future.

Also, he confirmed that you CAN fit the system into a standard AEG receiver if you mill off the tabs on the upper receiver.  However, he said that they have no current plans to sell the system separately.  So you would have to buy the complete rifle and then transplant the system to another receiver.

4. There will be NO P90 or any trademarked items from FNH.  James expressed that they had not negotiated a deal with Cybergun, though he did say that the firm was not doing well and it was not entirely sure what will happen to it or its licenses.

5. Regarding the broken hopup issue on the WE M&Ps.  They are aware of this and apologize for it.  Turns out one the molds for the chambers was off slightly and caused the problem.  New lots of the pistol will have this issue resolved.  

6.  New WE pistol models will use the M&P style hopup bucking ,that's similar to the A+ studio design.

7.  Locally, the shop called Armed Forces, which is the HK distributor for WE, will be getting their own engraving machine.  I don't need to tell you what this means in terms of trademarked items from WE.

8.  I pointed out the rather lacking quality of the cast alloy parts on their pistols (pitting, poor unpainted finish etc).  James agrees that this is a huge point for improvement and he's thinking of ways to improve the casting without adding too much extra cost.

9.  Lastly, I suggested something to James, and he has taken some interest.  A while ago, Real Sword played around with the idea of separating the shooting gas from the blowback gas in their GBBRs.  This is a BRILLIANT idea and will make GBBRs MUCH more reliable, efficient, and formidable.  James has said he will bring the idea back to the engineers and see what they think in terms of feasibility.

Overall James turned out to be an outstanding rep (he is the managing director for WE).  He clearly knows his product and has great passion in them.  I have a newfound respect for WE, they're definitely led by someone who knows what he's doing.  And of course I will be buying more from them in the future.

One last note for all HK players:
James confirmed that Armed Forces is supposed to be able to supply or order for you any spare part on a WE item, including the broken hopup chamber on the M&Ps.  Alas, not for free unfortunately.  I've asked this before of them and they told me to f off in the typical local HK airsoft store manner.  This time I can go back with confidence and tell them to f-off and order me my dam spare chamber.

That's all for now.

[Wild_XIII]

The news of Cybergun going down is pretty sweet! Shame about the P90 though.

 

Thanks for the feedback, it looks like WE are certainly trying to up their game.

[mimesis]

The news of Cybergun going down is pretty sweet! Shame about the P90 though.

 

I read that as referring to Fabrique Nationale, not Cyberbum.

[Wild_XIII]

James expressed that they had not negotiated a deal with Cybergun, though he did say that the firm was not doing well and it was not entirely sure what will happen to it or its licenses.

 

I doubt FN are going out of business, Cybergun is much more likely to go down. FN would probably have a lot more to worry about than licenses if they went bust!

[Bucko]

All good news.  I've been quite impressed with the way WE has been constantly improving their quality and such.  This just further instills confidence.

[Jedigreedo]

I really hope if Cybergun falls then it means we can finally see that P90 GBB.  It's the Holy Grail of airsoft for me.

[NonEx]

Thanks for the update man, that was a nice read I have to say.

 

I don't like to use the phrase, but I have to admit, I have turned into a bit of a "WE fanboy". For many reasons. Right now on the market their products are the only ones that makes sense and appeal to me for what I want and need, as an overall package and in price point. I don't mean the word in the sense that I am saying everything WE makes is great and they can do no wrong, but yeah.

 

Add to that what has been confirmed by the info in the original post, that WE is a superb company (from a business standpoint), and with a great representative. I don't mean to say their products are perfect, but when the CEO of the figgen company goes on record and sais, yes we know this is bad, we apologize and we have or will correct it, that means alot in my book.

 

I can only hope that the future of WE producte releases will mean many change of underwear for me, due to accidents both front and rear!

 

Also, regarding AFC supplying parts. I can confirm that they will do this for worldwide customers as well. They got me a spare blow back housing and striker indicator plate for my XDM. Cost half an XDM with parts and shipping and took 4 weeks, but they got it done.

 

As for AFC engraving machine. I know they do some work on WE stuff and release it with trades, such as the WE P226 with trades, one of the models are from AFC, they are also responsible for the traded WE M4 line up as well (marketed somtimes as WE/AFC, or WE w/ trades). But if they can do that full time, *fruitcage* YEAH! Because they actually do a good job, both with trades and finish. Very good news. Suprised James would go on record with that though...

 

Previously James told me to contact airsoft123.com, I tried it a few days ago for something else and got zero response back, which is pretty poor.

 

Not a big fan of the last idea, if it would in any way mean that design and looks of the weapons will deviate in any way from the RS ones.

 

And yes, I also interpreted it as Cybergun going out of business, which has been the word going around for some time. FNH, no way. If Cybergun goes out I will have to celebrate with some champagne or something! *fruitcage* *albatrosses*.

[Cephas]

I have question from IBMedic's excellent post regarding WE's future products. From #9 from the OP post what does it mean to separate the shooting gas to the blowback gas? Also what are the benefits of this?

 

[Manxmadman]

That you'd have one reserve to operate the mechanism (say a CO2 caplet in the grip), and then the gas within the mag would solely be used to propel the BB, ala a non-blow back pistol. So rather than a mag being able to fire say 2 and a half loads, it could manage maybe 4 whilst still outputting the some power level.

[WhiteHawksan]

one thing I would of suggestyed, and have suggested be suggested before is a 'WE Pro-line' take their ideas, their guns, and make them to TM specQC, and charge TM Spec prices for it. Have your standard line with the usual poor QC, terrible fit and finish etc, but bring us top quality guns with top quality QC and people will pay top prices for it. 

[T3CH]

Cybergun going down............quick prepare the party..er wake, yes the solemn sad muahaha, trahahahagic news ahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahah

 

Now if ASG would join them.

[IBMedic]

That you'd have one reserve to operate the mechanism (say a CO2 caplet in the grip), and then the gas within the mag would solely be used to propel the BB, ala a non-blow back pistol. So rather than a mag being able to fire say 2 and a half loads, it could manage maybe 4 whilst still outputting the some power level.

BRILLIANT

I will revert this to James and see what he has to say.

 

one thing I would of suggestyed, and have suggested be suggested before is a 'WE Pro-line' take their ideas, their guns, and make them to TM specQC, and charge TM Spec prices for it. Have your standard line with the usual poor QC, terrible fit and finish etc, but bring us top quality guns with top quality QC and people will pay top prices for it. 

I was thinking of asking him the same thing.  But I'm sure he's already considered it and would have some very marketing oriented response.  Still I guess it's worth a chat.

[WhiteHawksan]

maybe they just haven't thought about it? Most people would still want the standard WE line becuase IT AM FULL METALZ AND CHEAPZORZ!!1ONE!1 but some of us want the designs they're starting to come out with but in high-end format but without paying the ridiculous prices of say Prime or Ino etc, but of course are happy to pay say G&P/TM prices for stuff.

[IBMedic]

maybe they just haven't thought about it? Most people would still want the standard WE line becuase IT AM FULL METALZ AND CHEAPZORZ!!1ONE!1 but some of us want the designs they're starting to come out with but in high-end format but without paying the ridiculous prices of say Prime or Ino etc, but of course are happy to pay say G&P/TM prices for stuff.

Nah, they've all thought about it.  Think about all the other Taiwan brands, most of them have a proline and a sportsline.

 

James did mention that 2+ years ago they decided that quality, not cost was to be their main focus.  I think they're on the "best quality we can offer, at the lowest price we can offer" philosophy.  And for the most part they deliver with their new products.

[FireKnife]

one thing I would of suggestyed, and have suggested be suggested before is a 'WE Pro-line' take their ideas, their guns, and make them to TM specQC, and charge TM Spec prices for it. Have your standard line with the usual poor QC, terrible fit and finish etc, but bring us top quality guns with top quality QC and people will pay top prices for it. 

 

But then wouldn't it just be better to buy a TM and a metal kit?

 

For the models that other companies don't make, like the M&P this would be a good idea but no matter how WE dress it up they are a clone manufacturer and a cheap price point one too. They are always going to make reasonable sidearms and GBBRs that appeal to those that want to balance the quality / reliability / budget price. For them to stretch outside that market and into say KSC Japan model and TM territory would be a bold move.

 

Still

 

2. The frames on the pistols have a high fiberglass content, much higher than on Marui pistols.  This is thanks to them hiring out to a firm that specializes in such molding.  According to James, the Glock frame is strong enough to be run over by a small car.

 

Bit of a huge exaggeration here, but they do seem to be a robust design nonetheless. A one story fall would dent or crack it so a small car would crush it but still good to hear they are putting a bit more effort into the polymer frames, have seen some of the earlier Glocks and Hi-Capas splitting after a tumble, something that is common with plastic pistol anyway though.

 

Good to hear they are making promises, now they just need to deliver on as many of them as they can. Oh and make a BHP with a proper sight .

 

'FireKnife'

[Wingmann]

If the M&P hops are indeed faulty I'd like them to step up and provide substitution units. After all it's a warranty issue.

[NonEx]

Saying that WE is still just a cheap clone manufacturer is a bit far from reality IMO.

 

And TM with metal kit lots of money, extra work and fitting, doesn't work as well as out of the box WE's and also means you pay for duplicate parts when you could get it out of the box.

 

I would love a WE ProLine for sure.

[FireKnife]

Saying that WE is still just a cheap clone manufacturer is a bit far from reality IMO.

 

Not really. Most of the models they make are a clone or use a clone system taken from another maker with a few tweaks so they fire better on metal parts. The M&P is just a cloned system shoe-horned into another gun with the changes to make it work, the basic system, the hop and the magazine style are all still cloned items.

 

They still retail at the £100 mark for a pistol and the £250 mark for a basic GBBR. That is cheap, simple as that.

 

They are innovating, but I think you are missing the point of me calling them a cheap clone company. I am not saying they are a *suitcase* cheap cloning company but the work they do is often using cheaper parts and by cloning already existing systems, you can still do this well, like CYMA and the AEGs they clone.

 

'FireKnife'

[WhiteHawksan]

Not really. Most of the models they make are a clone or use a clone system taken from another maker with a few tweaks so they fire better on metal parts. The M&P is just a cloned system shoe-horned into another gun with the changes to make it work, the basic system, the hop and the magazine style are all still cloned items.

 

They still retail at the £100 mark for a pistol and the £250 mark for a basic GBBR. That is cheap, simple as that.

 

They are innovating, but I think you are missing the point of me calling them a cheap clone company. I am not saying they are a *suitcase* cheap cloning company but the work they do is often using cheaper parts and by cloning already existing systems, you can still do this well, like CYMA and the AEGs they clone.

 

'FireKnife'

For once my deeply perverted comrade, I must disagree there, WE have come a loooooong way, they're consistently upping their game and if I had the chance to buy a TM clone M9 but in metal but top QC and a similar price point to TM's then I'd be a lot happier, and in effect, isn't the TM design just the same basic pistol blowback system designed by mr Koba shoved into every pistol they can?

 

And I agree, a properbrowning please. Its not TOO much to ask for the standard British Army Issue one is it?

[FireKnife]

I did put in my post:

 

They are innovating, but I think you are missing the point of me calling them a cheap clone company. I am not saying they are a *suitcase* cheap cloning company but the work they do is often using cheaper parts and by cloning already existing systems, you can still do this well, like CYMA and the AEGs they clone.

 

'FireKnife'

 

They are trying and they are making their guns better than they used to be, like every other maker out there. I never said they weren't, it us just that they will always try and make it to a price point, otherwise in many of the markets they focus on like Taiwan and HK where you have many other cheap makers too they will be out sold as they can't offer at that price point if they aim too high on the costs and designs. If they did make a sort of ProLine that would be good, but is it in the company interests that much to make one. Sure having TM specs would be great but if you can sell five cheaper guns at $100 or two or three better guns at $160-180 (the average TM price point at the moment) with the bulk production being the same and the material costs matching the price of the finished product what is better for them? It is an idea I agree with, I never said it wasn't ever going to work it would just be a very bold move and one that could come back to bite them, they are safe in the market they are in at the moment and moving into a another dominated market could not be a good idea.

 

If they decide to take that on board and do so they good luck to them. However the idea that they are going to make Glock frames out of robust polymers that can be driven over by a small car just sounds like general sales person BS, like that company that offered the BBC news reporter a new Land Rover style phone if he could break the prototype, one sharp crack on the corner of the table, broken phone and company shown up . When I do my WE pistol test for this year and it gets to December if it is still alive I will strip out the fram and drive my Ford Ka over it and see how it performs, why not, if it makes it a year then it deserves a final test.

 

'FireKnife'

[renegadecow]

Not really. Most of the models they make are a clone or use a clone system taken from another maker with a few tweaks so they fire better on metal parts. The M&P is just a cloned system shoe-horned into another gun with the changes to make it work, the basic system, the hop and the magazine style are all still cloned items.

If you put it that way, you could consider Tokyo Marui as being a clone company if after all they've based all their pistols after Mr. Miyagi's Tanio Kobayashi's pre-shoot system. It was first applied to their M9 IIRC when TK was still with them and when he left they applied the same technology to the rest of their pistols.

[FireKnife]

If you put it that way, you could consider Tokyo Marui as being a clone company if after all they've based all their pistols after Mr. Miyagi's Tanio Kobayashi's pre-shoot system. It was first applied to their M9 IIRC when TK was still with them and when he left they applied the same technology to the rest of their pistols.

 

True, but then the original design was first put into their gun with TK working for them. Cloning requires no acceptance from the company that the original design comes from. But I do see your point, it was more people saying to me in other discussions and the comment that WE are not a 'clone company', TM could well be considered a clone company and by that rights most groups are cloning each other and really all systems in modern guns come from clones or re-hashes of someone elses gun.

 

I think it is more people wanting something that sounds like a good idea on paper and in pre-concept like WE having a high end side to the company but when it boils down to the company and the fact it is a market that already exists is it really worth them doing so in the long run? It would be good to see, but the big focus for them will be the markets they have.

 

I know I would still buy TMs because I find the plastic slides are better for the UK but for the casual sidearm user, collector or plinker this would be good to have what they want with better internals for the price.

 

'FireKnife'

[WhiteHawksan]

It's more for things like the the GBBR's and unique stuff, having one that you know is nicely QC'd and maybe a warranty OOTB or something. Of course any parts that fail the strict proline QC could just go on regular guns

[FireKnife]

It's more for things like the the GBBR's and unique stuff, having one that you know is nicely QC'd and maybe a warranty OOTB or something. Of course any parts that fail the strict proline QC could just go on regular guns

 

That is true, but again sounds a bit 'non-viable'. What would help is if the main home markets for WE were not so cheap price competitive and clone market focused, that way they might have gone that route already by now.

 

But then that is like asking why wont TM listen to my request for a Makarov or why don't airsoft companies stop making so many bloody M4s, it is what will and wont sell and as much as we can sway the market we can't truly dictate what they do, just have to buy what we like of what they make and hope the next gun is the uber-cool one we want, but then that would boil down to the 'we don't all want the same gun' side of things too.

 

In short, as many a film villain has said 'you can't win'.

 

'FireKnife'

[WhiteHawksan]

I will win when someone makes a GBB UMP that doesn't suck balls. Not that I'm writing the VFC off already, but lets face it. It's going to be the MP5 internals shoe-horned into a UMP body. It will be ultra-realistic and fabulous externally but won't actually fire anything without disintegrating and catching fire, while humping dead badgers.