Isamu Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Ok, didnt think about length, but why a so small quantity? I understand they want to give the gun a training tool marketing face (like PTWs) but a double stack design (+100rds) like regular midcaps should be achivable while retaining the 30rds feature, vanaras mags for PTWs are like that. No bashing, honest question Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 The internal geometry simply can't be the same as a conventional midcap nor the new next gen SOPMOD PMAG. That bolt lock mechanism takes up a decent amount of real-estate in the rear and top of the mag, enough to prevent the feed channel from curving twice given the overall length. Compound that with a mag that's regular AEG length which is shorter than the new TM SOPMOD ... 60 rounds was essentially the capacity they came up with that would allow more BBs than the originally intended 30 round capacity and still yield a reliably feeding magazine. I asked the same thing as you just did, 19 months ago in meetings when the mags were originally pitched as 30 rounders only (I was the most vocal against the 30 round only decision). I was a firm believer that pitching this as primarily a LE training focused tool would alienate the core consumer who buys these products. Furthermore, I've dealt with enough LE training events to know that if you want to run back to back training evolutions, having a 30 round mag sounds ideal but isn't entirely practical. I genuinely believe the current switchable 30/60 round capacity is a good balance in light of the engineering limitations to produce a mag that has the features it has and still feed very reliable. Plus the average airsoft consumer generally has a healthy number of midcaps etc to keep the gun running for longer drawn out firefights. And to that point, if a consumer buys this gun, unlike other guns that have proprietary magazines, if you already have regular AEG mags, you don't have to invest in an entire new load out of mags to enjoy the gun. Although, considering the price of the ERG PMAGs at $39.95 for a three pack (equates to $13.3 per ERG PMAG), that's incredibly affordable IMO especially compared to TM SOPMOD proprietary mags costing $30.55 each. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Belt fed recoil support AEG. Sweet! That even rattles the belt. Probably going to cost $800 though, knowing Marui. edit: Didn't see Yih Kai being the patent owner. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 uscm corps: Thanks for the explanation, mate! I was afraid that the reason behind the low round count was marketing one instead a technical issue Link to post Share on other sites
BigAl Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 At last, been waiting for these for years. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Spec on the uppers' thread uscm? One thing I've been struggling for lately is a good 'base' AR AEG. Just something with solid internals, good quality modern externals, decent realistic-ish trades, UK skirmish level muzzle energy out of the box, logical parts compatibility and some actual availability of stock. Might seem like a long list but is that really so much to ask for in the most commonly produced airsoft rifle there is? Doesn't seem all that much to me. All the major brands always have something that doesn't quite fit; the best option I know of right now (for my preferences) are the Avalon BCM rifles which I'm currently weighing up against running an ERG with standard AEG mags. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Upper Threading should be the same as LM4. VFC / Avalon BCM rifles are great rifles. I like those a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
vilerk Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 I might have found the patent, last updated in 2012, for the ERG, or at least its predecessor. http://twpat1.tipo.gov.tw/tipotwoc/tipotwekm?0045C5450012080200000000000100A000000001000000000^My boss told me that the patent for the ERG was already publicly available in Taiwan, so this might be it. Judging from the pics, looks like there will be an actual rearward recoil.. interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Any idea if they're dolling up AKs too? Just caught wind of the KWA AK ERG, though can't tell if that has a firing stop feature too (why I never got a Marui). Link to post Share on other sites
Nath Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Spec on the uppers' thread uscm? One thing I've been struggling for lately is a good 'base' AR AEG. Just something with solid internals, good quality modern externals, decent realistic-ish trades, UK skirmish level muzzle energy out of the box, logical parts compatibility and some actual availability of stock. Might seem like a long list but is that really so much to ask for in the most commonly produced airsoft rifle there is? Doesn't seem all that much to me. All the major brands always have something that doesn't quite fit; the best option I know of right now (for my preferences) are the Avalon BCM rifles which I'm currently weighing up against running an ERG with standard AEG mags. We're in the same boat. I'm still not sure if to get a VFC MK18 Mod 1 or waiting for ERG and basing my build on this gun (lower with Colt trades pleaaaaaaeeeeeeeee). Link to post Share on other sites
northernairsofter Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Spec on the uppers' thread uscm? One thing I've been struggling for lately is a good 'base' AR AEG. Just something with solid internals, good quality modern externals, decent realistic-ish trades, UK skirmish level muzzle energy out of the box, logical parts compatibility and some actual availability of stock. Might seem like a long list but is that really so much to ask for in the most commonly produced airsoft rifle there is? Doesn't seem all that much to me. All the major brands always have something that doesn't quite fit; the best option I know of right now (for my preferences) are the Avalon BCM rifles which I'm currently weighing up against running an ERG with standard AEG mags. Why not go for the Lonex M4 AEG's ? really good internals/externals and very up gradable - http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/product_detail1.php?search_From=searchItem&item=LONEX-AEG-L4RIS104&search=special&rs=lonex-aeg-&catid=&cat= doesnt have trades however - make your own Link to post Share on other sites
Warning Posted August 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites
FTZ-WildeCard Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Bahhhh!! This thing can't come into stock soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
Noveske Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Looks like the recoil system is forward snapping, no different from the Tokyo Marui Next gen. Darn. Was hoping it would be something new which would mimic real recoil. Link to post Share on other sites
vorpalbunnie Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I find the 14 RPS on an 11.1V disconcerting. Link to post Share on other sites
Honzo Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I've been having an eye on this for a little while(although in the meantime I've probably acquired over 3 TM recoil shocks because it took so long). I'm still curious about it though. I noticed in the airsoft gi video that the bolt doesnt move back while firing like the TM does. It wouldnt be a big deal to me but just an observation Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The fake bolt indeed does not move back and forth in the chamber. That was actually a deliberate move on the design teams part. Fake bolts moving back and forth are more often the cause of increased internal wear and tear that could otherwise have been avoided with the removal of that function. To me (and most others in the T&E team) that minor feature served little purpose compared to the much more noticeable and enjoyable jostling of the kinetic recoil mechanism. When fired side by side with a TM SOPMOD the felt differences were quite acute in the RM4's favor. The TM SOPMOD in comparison felt much more obviously like a forward kick than a rearward one. The RM4's recoil does move forward as well as rearward however current productions models were actually quite well balanced in this regard. This is of course subjective. Link to post Share on other sites
FTZ-WildeCard Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I find the 14 RPS on an 11.1V disconcerting. Yeah I did find that strange as well... Still, hasn't dampened my enthusiasm at all! I'm thinking I'll get one and swap on a RIS of choice, but it'll have to have a PEQ box or battery sling fitted - no chance you can rear wire these things. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The low ROF would have a lot to do with the reduced spur gear size. This could also lend to more pronounced recoil. As far as simulated recoil is concerned for airsoft guns, it's really just the oscillation of a weighted piston, but if you get the frequency just right (harmonic resonance) what little weight you put on feels stronger. Link to post Share on other sites
Nath Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The non standard internals are a bit worrying. Link to post Share on other sites
FTZ-WildeCard Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The non standard internals are a bit worrying. I'm not so fussed - at least not yet, as long as it has decent trigger response (comes with a KWA Hi-Torque, but I admit I don't really know how good a motor they are) then it will be OK. I can live with the relatively low rate of fire, after all the main selling point for me is the recoil and the working bolt catch. So upgrades are not a big concern, but I get your point. If you're worried about them being proprietary and hard to get replacements for -- well, it can't be any worse than with TM. KWA is generally pretty good with spares, so I think it will be just fine! Link to post Share on other sites
M_P Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 well, it can't be any worse than with TM. Yes but quite a few manufacturers have supported them with aftermarket bits, not something they're so keen to do for other brands. Link to post Share on other sites
FTZ-WildeCard Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Yes but quite a few manufacturers have supported them with aftermarket bits, not something they're so keen to do for other brands. Though somehow I don't think the range of parts available will compare to what KWA can provide through Pro Shop. Link to post Share on other sites
lacanuck24 Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 4 EBB's and counting I'm pretty set on getting one of these as soon as I can! The price of mags is awesome. I refinance loans every time I need more freaking Marui EBB mags. Marui mags are nice but also a pain because of the channel cut out of the back for the cut-off mech. Makes loading them into some pouches a pain. Every time I load a mag into a BFG 10 speed pouch I'm fighting it the whole time plus I'm wondering if I'm going to rip the thing. USMCorps, I have one question. In the first video interview about the gun it was stated that you can pull the charging handle to engage the firing system with a fresh mag, but in following videos theres no mention of that. I just wanted to double check, is the bolt release the only way to re-engage the firing system or is the charging handle capable of this also? Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 It did it on one of the earlier production samples. Not sure if it still does. It might have been nixed. Not sure. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
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