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HK416 options


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40 members have voted

  1. 1. which HK416

    • TM EBBR
      30
    • WE GBBR
      2
    • VFC/UMAREX AEG
      8
    • VFC UMAREX GBBR
      0


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Hello All

 

i have recently decided to make a return to airsoft after spending a year or two out, and i am pretty much starting from scratch as i sold 90% of my gear to friends who are just starting which has given me a chance to start all over again.

 

now i have had AEG's in the past and they have always had problems with them (electrically mainly) be it rewiring, batteries, trigger etc... its never gone my way and i am not skilled enough to tackle the wiring on them so i end up sending them off and paying through the nose for new wiring looms etc.. fixed or fitted and the issue of battery space has always annoyed me and back to the last time i was full into the swing of things Lipo batteries had only just started being used in the airsoft world. and GBBR's were in their infancy and very expensive to say the least and not as reliable as i had hoped.

I have always liked gas guns, because they are simple to maintain, a little more realistic and sound better and this is just my personal opinion after servicing and maintaining my GBB pistols i thought to myself that a GBBR may be the answer as they are now more popular, parts are easier to get hold of and are cheaper to buy

 

Anyway

 

when it comes to primaries i know i want a HK416, why? because i am going for a Norwegian FSK/HJK style loadout, the camo is on order but this leaves with with the issue of choosing a main weapon, i know there are several HK416 replicas out there and the are both EBB, AEG and GBBR

 

so here is my problem

 

i grudge paying close to £550 for the TM which is a lot of money but people swear by them and i can understand why, i did use the SOPMOD when they first came out and i was quite impressed but is it really worth the price? the VFC/Umarex AEG is just shy of £400 but again when its £100 less than the TM, again worth it?

 

now for the GBBR's i initially looked at the WE Open Bolt version which Ive seen a lot of mixed reviews for, the main concern is the finishing quality on the receiver, is it anodized or painted? is it Aluminum or "pot metal" which has been quoted quite a lot in videos and reviews ive read. internally is it a good reliable system and are upgrade parts worth it and what would you recommend?

VFC/Umarex 416 GBBR, Ive not seen a lot of reviews on them but being fully licensed by HK and VFC being the top dogs in the industry for external quality i was interested to see how they would fair, they do shoot over 350 FPS which is an issue for me as my site limit is 350 and i have yet to see an NPAS available for them but then with the lack of reviews on internal quality and reliability of the system and mags i don't know if it is a gamble to buy one. so i need a little more info on these before i make an informed decision.

 

so given my predicament i need a little more experience/info and advice on these and what would you choose and why?

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I havev to admit since i bought mine i'm a full on recoil fanboy, I had a go with a friends 416 on sunday and it rocked! Its a TM so if you leave it stock it should go on forever (you know what i mean) theyt are expensive but i can't see me buying another gun unless its a recoil only issue with them is they are quite hard to get your hands on but as TM have just announced the devgru version there should be more released soon I say go TM !

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Like the others say, TM all the way. The HK416D (not the new DEVGRU version with the generic M4 stock) is a great gun even if it is expensive. Get on the waiting list at Echigoya (from whom it will be the cheapest) and await its arrival; you won't be disappointed when it turns up. Don't modify it at all - it doesn't really need it, if you're happy with the stock power level (c.300fps on 0.20g BBs) - but don't buy any of Marui's horrible OEM batteries. Buy the Baton adapter (available at Eagle6 and elsewhere) and use LiPos for a greatly improved trigger response and advanced technology at a lower price.
 
The VFC is a nice looking gun, and by all accounts quite an effective one too. Do NOT buy a Umarex one if you can possibly avoid it; they're plastered with hideous paragraphs of text detailing the minutiae of the licensing agreements on the right-hand side of the magazine well. It lacks the TM's advanced features (the recoil, the bolt lock and release) but I'm under the impression that it's a solid weapon nonetheless.
 

I have always liked gas guns, because they are simple to maintain, a little more realistic and sound better and this is just my personal opinion after servicing and maintaining my GBB pistols i thought to myself that a GBBR may be the answer as they are now more popular, parts are easier to get hold of and are cheaper to buy

 
Honestly, if this is to be your only primary weapon, I would not buy a GBBR. They are (with the possible exception of the KWA LM4) insufficiently capable to deal with every situation you'll encounter in airsoft. The cold British climate robs them of their efficiency and power for a third of the year, their rate of fire is badly lacking compared to AEGs and their magazines are extremely expensive. They're also quite a lot more complicated than GBB pistols - the principles remain the same, but there are a lot more parts - and though they might be easier to service, you'll need to service them very frequently (unlike an AEG, which even if it is mysterious to you shouldn't need servicing except in intervals of tens to hundreds of thousands of rounds). They're very expensive to run, too - even in bulk propane is a lot pricier than electricity. The bottom line with GBBRs in my experience is they're brilliant for some situations - warm summers in semi-automatic situations, or all-GBB games - but they'll leave you badly exposed in many other situations. Anyway:
 

now for the GBBR's i initially looked at the WE Open Bolt version which Ive seen a lot of mixed reviews for, the main concern is the finishing quality on the receiver, is it anodized or painted? is it Aluminum or "pot metal" which has been quoted quite a lot in videos and reviews ive read. internally is it a good reliable system and are upgrade parts worth it and what would you recommend?

 
The WE, AFAIK, is painted and is of pot alloy construction. It's not available from the factory with trademarks (though you can buy aftermarket trademarked versions) and WE's attention to aesthetics is notoriously poor; certainly the VFCs will make it look like a heap of s***. However, the WE is very affordable compared to the WA system, and though it suffers premature wear of many of its pot-metal components they are cheap to replace. Expect to have to maintain the rifle fastidiously, changing some parts every few thousand rounds and many parts every ten thousand or so. Owing to poor QC your chances of getting a good rifle out of the box are low, but they're not supposed to be very hard to tune.
 

VFC/Umarex 416 GBBR, Ive not seen a lot of reviews on them but being fully licensed by HK and VFC being the top dogs in the industry for external quality i was interested to see how they would fair, they do shoot over 350 FPS which is an issue for me as my site limit is 350 and i have yet to see an NPAS available for them but then with the lack of reviews on internal quality and reliability of the system and mags i don't know if it is a gamble to buy one.

 

These have VFC's excellent externals, but from what I've heard as with other VFCs GBBRs (and GBB SMGs) these have a catastrophic reputation for internal fragility, very premature parts wear and extreme unreliability. They are not compatible with other magazines (despite being closely related to the WA system) and parts support is very poor compared to the WE. Some aftermarket parts are supposed to greatly improve the VFC GBB MP5-series, but I've not heard of similar miracles being wrought with the AR-15s. Proceed with extreme caution if you're thinking about purchasing one of these.

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A PTW is an overpriced paperweight. They were revolutionary when they came out.
Now, the TM shakey-shakeys have surpassed them by far, and the ONLY thing the PTWs have left, is the "real spec" gimmick.
...which is kinda pointless as long as you can get anything remotely similar to what you want with decent quality.
Real spec is nice, but it's not $2000+ nice.

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there is still that other  416... the FCC PTW 416.

 

There's actually another HK416 - the Iron Airsoft HK416 (WA-pattern GBBR). That would actually be my choice for a GBBR (build it up with nice steel parts and it would be a really, really brilliant gun) but it wouldn't be cheap.

 

A PTW is an overpriced paperweight. [...] Now, the TM shakey-shakeys have surpassed them by far, and the ONLY thing the PTWs have left, is the "real spec" gimmick.

 

I dunno about paperweight but PTWs are definitely very expensive for what they are. The RS-size thing is actually really cool; I wish the TM Recoil Shocks were RS-spec'd so I could use RS upper receivers and the like. But I won't pay an extra $2k for the privilege, so I don't own one.

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IMHO, PTWs are most definitely. I see them broken down more often than I see anyone actually firing theirs.
And yes, the IA kit is very nice - but it's a GBBR. They simply cannot compete with the reliability of a stock TM weapon.
GBBRs are also not viable many places due to the climate.

For ultimate realism, GBBRs are definitely the way to go - but for a serviceable airsoft weapon, noone can hold a candle to TM.

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I'd argue against that statement, I personally know 30-40 people that run PTW's exclusively , failure rate is zero to none. Properly built,maintained and serviced they are tanks.

 

The high price point is a big negative, and I can't argue with that,I'm lucky enough to be able to afford one, I now have no AEG's in my armoury, a lot of people are clinging on to arguments from 5-10 years ago regarding PTW's, and now with CTW's, DTW's, FCC, prices and parts are more bearable.

 

Ill wait for the "but the motor am bad", well, factor in another £80-100 on your initial purchase for a re-wind, just like you'll factor in your battery mods, tight bore barrel, and hop up snizz on a TM recoil.

 

Expensive yes, paperweight.. ? Certainly not to me.

 

 

However, as the OP has only given the four choices above, it would be the TM for me.

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I have a VFC 416. It's a DX model from the first release and it is my top AEG.

 

If I was buying today it would be the TM 416 without any doubt.

 

For the right player a PTW is head and shoulders above an AEG. For the wrong player though is tear filled nightmare.

 

FCC does have their TW 416 but I hear it can be plagued with issues that you need Tackleberryesque skills to remedy.

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Another vote for the TM 416 here, mine's internally stock with the exception of a 6.03 inner barrel and it's the best gun I've ever had.  

 

There's a lot of hate for the TM SOPMOD style batteries too but I personally find them more than adequate, I get a full day of skirmishing out of a single battery and I've only ever had to change out for another one once on a weekender. Admittedly I'm not big on full auto or unloading high caps into bushes but there's easily a thousand shots in each battery, probably more. 

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 just like you'll factor in your battery mods, tight bore barrel, and hop up snizz on a TM recoil.

Well, no. The entire point of buying a TM weapon is to leave it stock.

 

TM never had the hottest shooting guns out of the box. They never had the absolutely best externals.

However, they've always had  the best stock performance and longevity out of the box.

...and now they have recoil as well!

 

I have to make one admission though. On my TM HK416, I bought an adapter that lets me use LiPo batteries with deans connectors, rather than the SOPMOD batteries.

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It has nothing to do with cost. All the experiences I've had (and my friends for that matter) with PTWs, haven't been the best, to say the least.
I'll be the first to admit that they feel really great in your hand. The slim grip is awesome.

But they just aren't worth the trouble. Not to mention the extremely excessive price. ;)

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5-6 years ago ,I said the same, sold my PTW's and went back to AEG's, in the last two years I've gone back, the knowledge base, highly skilled PTW tech's, and greater choice in aftermarket parts have really restored or probably doubled my confidence in them as a fully skirmishable platform, for the walk on player or Milsim goer.

 

It's a high outlay, there's no denying it, but I no longer have ten AEG's sat in the rack, just two PTW's and an ACM shotgun.

 

If the PTW wasn't an option, TM recoil would be in its place.

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It has nothing to do with cost. All the experiences I've had (and my friends for that matter) with PTWs, haven't been the best, to say the least.

I'll be the first to admit that they feel really great in your hand. The slim grip is awesome.

 

But they just aren't worth the trouble. Not to mention the extremely excessive price. ;)

If you are talking about Systema, I agree.

 

I, on the other hand, am saving up for a FCC PTW.

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TM for me too , without a dought the best performing AEG I've ever owned , I've kept it totally stock , yes the old chestnut of low power keeps cropping up in any discussion on them (I run .25s in mine and get around 280fps out of it) but once it's 'settled down' the range is fenominal . I've stripped all the quick change gubins out of mine and replaced it with a deans connector so I can run 'normal' lipos in it (I can get a 2200 cranstock in it) .

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