r.ocelot

[Guest]

Alright, let me start off by saying I've done my best to keep an even temper, and not blow up over this thing. I think I've done a pretty good job of being patient, and giving him a chance to do the right things. But at this point it's been nearly 2 months since the beginning of this transaction, I still don't ahve everything I was promised, and I have gotten very little acceptable response to the situation. I'll leave it up to you the reader to decide for yourself if I've been a ###### in this whole thing. It certainly wasn't my intention.

 

It started off with this thread:

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...96191&hl=marsoc

 

I admit I was suspicious when his original price of $555, with "Lowest I'm willing to go is $490", dropped to $380 within hours.

 

The following are all the PMs I still have reguarding this transaction. I don't have many of mine, and did my best to piece it back together by what was quoted in his responses. As such, my PMs don't have dates & times associated with them.. Admittedly there are holes, but I'm sure you can fill them in without skewing the results much.

 

From: r.ocelot $380, Jan 30 2007, 12:52 PM

$380 shipped?

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Jan 30 2007, 01:50 PM

Feel free to make an offer, anything within a certain range is fine

Thanks for the interest buddy,

Ocelot

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Alright, still very interested, but curious about the "double what you paid" comment earlier. I take it this thing was busted at one point?

it is full metal correct? What was the problem? Is it completely remedied now? Any other issues to know about?

Thanks.

-Nick

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Ok found your post from a few days ago that I thought I'd seen but couldn't remember where it was.

You say you paid $240 shipped.

Assuming that was because it was busted in some way.

And Assuming that it's fully functional now, I'll give you $350 shipped, that's a $110 profit.

Let me know.

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Jan 31 2007, 07:48 AM

$350 = deal, it only includes one mag (the one with the working mag lip).

PP's fine by you?

 

 

Lost my sent email, but he repeats my questions:

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Jan 31 2007, 09:08 AM

"What if anything is currently wrong with it?"

You need to pull harder on the trigger. Not very gas efficient.

"What was wrong with it originally?"

Really worn out disconnector, blowback unit o-ring expanded an extra .5mm, hop rubber worn out, inner barrel dented, blowback would often get stuck in the middle of the cycle.

"What did you have to do to fix it?"

I bought an SVI 4.3 from ruchik and replaced the MarSOC's internals with that from the 4.3

"Why only 1 mag, i thought it included 2?"

Because you offered $50 less than the $400

"Which version is this (SCW, SCW2, SCW3)?"

SCW2. Can be easily converted into SCW3 with the purchase of a new scw3 firing pin.

Thanks,

Peter

 

 

Again, lost my sent mail, but he repeats my questions:

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Jan 31 2007, 09:30 AM

"Would $380 yield me the other mag, or would it have to be $400?"

If you can take regular priority mail w/ deliuvery confirmation and insurence, then $380 is fine. You know that the spare mag has a busted feed lip, right? You'll need to get a replacement one from any airsoft shop. AEX sells 'em as well. Should be around $5-7

"So what's your paypal address?"

I'll give it to you after I get home. Work place denies access to paypal website.

"Also, where in the world are you?"

NY, USA

If that's fine by you, post "SPF to me" in the thread.

Thanks a bunch,

Peter

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Jan 31 2007, 01:24 PM

w---------@hotmail.com

If you can take care of the paypal fees, that'll be great.

Thanks,

Peter

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Jan 31 2007, 01:43 PM

Also, let me know which one you want:

black or silver barrel,

stock gunner or delta grip

stock marsoc chamber or delta chamber (the steel one will be included as well).

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Black Barrel, not sure what the grips/chamber differences are?

Money's sent btw.

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot

Thanks bud, +1 coming your way.

The black barrel is orange tipped, fyi.

The delta grip is a rubber wrap around grip, while the gunner looks like waffle grips (the one that came with the stock gun)

The delta chamber says something like colt 10mm, while the marsoc one says " cal .45 NDT, P"

I will ship out on saturday via priority mail with delivery confirmation, thanks!

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Alright thanks for the info. in that case, Marsoc Chamber, Gunner Grips, and as long as the black barrel is metal I'll take that one.

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 4 2007, 04:23 PM

Hey bro,

Sorry, just realized that I only sent one mag with your gun.... I'll send the second on this weekend.

Really sorry 'bout this,

Peter

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Alright it showed up tonight and I've only had a few minutes with it, but so far here's my questions/concerns, etc.

1) When I gas it up & dry fire (Green Gas) it fires properly (blows back) about half the time. The other half are light strikes that just drop the hammer & poot some gas, but not enough to blow back, have to recock & try again.

2) I asked for the Gunner grips and seem to have gotten the Delta Wrap Arounds.

3) With the slide off & barrel out, the blowback chamber just fell out. . . haven't inspected yet, but I'm pretty sure that shouldn't happen

4) the inside of the slide (ridges that lock the barrel in place) looks sanded/ground/dremeled down? Again, could be from used, but doesn't look like it.

5) There seems to be a small sharp piece of plastic protruding from next to the hammer? What's the deal?

6) Was the mag sanded down, or is that purely from insertion in the gun? It looks sanded.

7) the recoil spring in the gun seems mangled at one end?

8) All the extras. What happened to the included metal chamber? Is the other recoil spring the original? or is that a new one? What are the other parts in the baggie?

I am not satisfied at this time.

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 01:08 AM

"

Alright it showed up tonight and I've only had a few minutes with it, but so far here's my questions/concerns, etc.

1) When I gas it up & dry fire (Green Gas) it fires properly (blows back) about half the time. The other half are light strikes that just drop the hammer & poot some gas, but not enough to blow back, have to recock & try again. Either that, or put the stronger recoil spring in."

Like I said, pull on the trigger, instead of tapping on it.

"2) I asked for the Gunner grips and seem to have gotten the Delta Wrap Arounds."

I' can only find two right halves of the gunner....

"3) With the slide off & barrel out, the blowback chamber just fell out. . . haven't inspected yet, but I'm pretty sure that shouldn't happen"

Actually, it is.

"4) the inside of the slide (ridges that lock the barrel in place) looks sanded/ground/dremeled down? Again, could be from used, but doesn't look like it."

That's so it wont get jammed during the middle of a blowback cycle.

"5) There seems to be a small sharp piece of plastic protruding from next to the hammer? What's the deal?"

Those are two spacers to keep the hammer in the center.

"6) Was the mag sanded down, or is that purely from insertion in the gun? It looks sanded."

Probably, it's how the original owner sent it to me.

"7) the recoil spring in the gun seems mangled at one end?"

You mean that it was cut down and

"8) All the extras. What happened to the included metal chamber? Is the other recoil spring the original? or is that a new one? What are the other parts in the baggie?"

The metal chamber is in the box, should be RIGHT next to the bag of parts. The other recoil spring is the new one. The other parts should contain the stock hammer, and I forgot the rest.

"I am not satisfied at this time."

I did state the the problems that you addressed, except for the cosmetics.

"-Nick"

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 01:25 AM

Also, if you take off the backstrap, you would have noticed the CP ultralight leaf spring that I've installed for free.

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 01:26 AM

Some thing else I forgot the tell you: I got a shipment of spare parts, and it included a couple of feedlips. You want me to include one when I ship the mag?

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 06:56 PM

"That doesn't say anything about "You have to pull the trigger harder because there's a problem with the sear and if you don't pull hard it'll have light strikes and not blow back all the way. It doesn't mention anything about having had to grind down the inside of the slide to keep it from binding."

You're right, but there would be a problem if I a) didn't mention the trigger pull, did not dremel the slide and the chamber, and let the slide get stuck halfway between blowback.

"The Metal Chamber was included, I wasn't questioning that, I was asking why it too was chewed up, and I would assume it was for the same reason?"

It's so that it'll work with the metal slide.

"What I'm saying is that I don't think I would have paid $380 if I had known about all of these problems ahead of time."

Like I said, i told you about the trigger pull problem, and if I did not file the chamber/inner slide, this conversation would not have been so civilized.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Ok, well I feel a partial refund is in order. This is NOT the product that was advertised.

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 07:03 PM

How is it not? Unless you mean the CP ultralight sear spring which I installed before I shipped it. Anyway, let me know as to whether you want me to include a maglip when I ship the other mag or not.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Yes, I want the second mag, and I want the feedlip please.

It is not the product advertised as the advertisement had no mention of light strikes or dremeling having been performed on the gun.

It also didn't come with the gunner grips, I understand if you can't find them, but in that case you should have emailed me and told me.

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 07:08 PM

You did not ask as to why you would need to pull the hammer harder, so I naturally assumed that you knew what was going on, as you did not ask questions about other fitting techiques. I never mentioned anything about the cosmetics, and you also have never asked.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

I asked "What is currently wrong with the gun?" And I also asked "What WAS wrong with the gun and how did you fix it?"

That is enough that you should have disclosed all of it.

Again, I think a partial refund is in order.

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 07:16 PM

You asked what is wrong with the gun, and I said you need to pull hard on the trigger. You asked what WAS wrong with the gun, I told you it "blowback would often get stuck in the middle of the cycle".

You asked about function, and not cosmetics.

I'll give you an offer right now:

You can either get the mag lip, or an unaltered steel chamber.

About the gunner grips: unless you like two sets of left sided grips, I can't help you here.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

What are the trades on the steel chamber?

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 07:19 PM

WILSON 45 ACP

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Alright, second magazine & new steel chamber. I still think I'm getting the raw side of the deal, but I'll cope.

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 07:22 PM

Coming from the guy who's getting an extra $50 in parts....

 

 

To: r.ocelot

And a non functional gun with dremeled bits. . .

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:$380, Feb 8 2007, 07:25 PM

Non functional? Last time I checked, it did everything a 1911 was supposed to do, minus the things that I have told you.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Just curious if you got a chance to ship the spare WA mag? Thanks

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:Shipped Spare mag?, Feb 20 2007, 07:11 AM

Yessir, it was dropped off at the PO last friday.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

Alright man, it's been 2 weeks since your last PM, so it's been at least 3 weeks since you shipped it and I have nothing here. Do you have any tracking info at all? Delivery Conf? Something? Can you talk to the post office then?

Thanks

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:Shipped Spare mag?, Mar 3 2007, 06:28 PM

Hey, sorry for the lack or PMs, I've been away for the last three days. I sent it via regular media mail, and I'll goto the PO on monday when it opens and inquire about the receipt #.

Really sorry about this

 

 

 

Over the next 3 weeks, I PMed him multiple times, my tone escalating with each successive PM I'm sure. I know he was on, as his profile would tell me when, usually multiple times a day, and I know he could tell he had PMs because on mine there's a giant red window at the top of the page when I come to the forums & have a new message.

Anyway, that went on until I finally got fed up with the lack of response and posted this in the 1911 picture forum:

 

"r.ocelot, Please check your PMs & tell me what's going on. I've been waiting well over a month for the extra mag & chamber you said you shipped. What's the deal!?"

 

He responded my posting a picture of a reciept with part of my address on it, and then finally responded via PM:

 

 

From: r.ocelot mag n chamber, Today, 07:53 PM

Just posted up that pic. It will reach you eventually, don't worry.

 

 

To: r.ocelot

You posted a pic that included part of my address on a public forum. That is unacceptable. Yes, it only showed my city & zip, but still that should have been handled privately. Now, this is the first PM I've gotten back after 3 or 4 asking you to contact the Post Office and find out what is going on, and your answer is that it will reach me eventually? That is not a good answer. You need to contact the post office and find out what the hell is going on with this package.

Thank you

-Nick

 

 

From: r.ocelot Re:mag n chamber, Today, 08:05 PM

I'm telling you what they told me. They can't track non-priority or express mail. and btw, i modified the post. I thought by that post you made you wanted to handle this publicly...

 

 

 

As it stands at 10PM on March 26, 2007, I still have not recieved the chamber/feedlips/spare mag, and the best explanation is "it'll reach you eventually." The light strikes & other various issues were solved with great help from Mobius Strip, and the gun performs quite well now, but that is not the point, most of my guns were bought used, many were broken. I have no problem buying broken guns when I know ahead of time. The point is, the communication was lacking, and the product was not as advertised. Those are the issues I have now.

[Husky]

have you ever fitted a metal kit to a pistol? if you had, you'd know that filing and dremeling is necessary or else the slide will bind with the frame or the chamber, and will have trouble functioning. I'm sure that all of the "cosmetic defects" are on the inside, unseen from outside eyes, unless you field strip your pistols to show everyone the internals... Ocelots a good guy, and he deals on this forum all the time. Always helpful, always courteous.

[Guest]

I have fitted metal kits before, and seen many others, but none were as chewed up as this. Although yes, the affected areas were all internal. I will post pictures when I can. I understand he's been around a while and has done many good deals with other people. All I can attest to is my own situation, which I was not pleased with.

[r.ocelot]

Why would you be waiting on feedlips? You're 100% right about the other stuff.

EDIT:

well, actually, I've been wrong. the second package was sent out first class, not media mail.

[hardboiledcop]

I have fitted metal kits before, and seen many others, but none were as chewed up as this.  Although yes, the affected areas were all internal.  I will post pictures when I can.  I understand he's been around a while and has done many good deals with other people.  All I can attest to is my own situation, which I was not pleased with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

hmm, I had the trouble with slide locking up during blowback, all I did was to remove the egg-shaped piece from inside the inner chamber assembly, this disables the chamber from dropping but makes it sit lower in the frame, this cured all my problems with cycling.

 

The blowback chamber is meant to fall right out with aftermarket slides, especially Prime (if that is what this is.)

 

About the light strikes, it would be a good assumption that you should really have known this, with R.O. having told you that you have to pull the trigger really hard. Did it turn out to be the disconnector? or perhaps a weak hammer spring?

 

--

 

Anyway I don't think you can really blame him for the postal service, this is why I never post items anything less than 1st class recorded, I've had too much experience of expensive things going missing in the post.

 

 

His description of the gun could have been much better, the exact problems should have been listed in the original sale.. but if I'm right, you got a full metal pistol for 380 dollars? that's a pretty good deal especially considering it now performs admirably, mine have cost in excess of 2000 dollars somehow and aren't even working reliably at the moment, each WA owner has their own building style, I guess this is R.O's, just remember in future, half the fun is in the building!

 

cheers, hbc.

[Guest]

ocelot is correct, feedlips were not part of the deal. Sorry about that.

 

The light strikes were due to the trigger hitting the sear which pushes up on the firing pin. pulling harder on the trigger would actually exagerate the issue not fix it.

 

I was a WA newb before this gun, so no I didn't know about the chamber. That is obviously not an actual issue anymore, I just reported all my PMs as they were, rather than editing anything.

 

Yes, I got a full metal gun for $380, which I too think is a good price. I just think that the communication, description & attitude could have been better.

[Husky]

so you've stated your case, move on now. Asking for a partial refund is basically stealing. You've already got a gorgeous pistol at a steal of a price, since the prime kits are in the 200$ range, and the marsoc itself is 230 i believe.

[phoenix360mute]

im not going to bother reading all the things said in this thread, but ive delt with ocelot a number of times, and its turned out very smooth, all items posted whe he said they were posted, but the ny postal service is being really slow at the moment, it took them a month to get a netal frame out of new yourk, i could have walked it out of ny faster than that

[Guest]

Asking for a partial refund was early on in the exchange and is not what I'm looking for now. All I want at this point is the spare mag & chamber that were part of the deal.

 

If everyone thinks I'm a *beep* ok. I figured full disclosure & good communication were reasonalbe expectations, but I guess I've just been lucky in all of my previous dealings.

 

If I'm the one being a *beep* fine, I appologize ocelot.

 

Edit:

 

HA HA guess what just showed up? Spare Mag & Chamber, sent first class on . . . March 24th. Over a month after he claimed to have shipped the items. Fine, maybe I was a ###### about some of it, but this shipment and the lack of communication were ridiculous.

[r.ocelot]

Eh? 24th? you might want to check the label on the box again.

edited for spelling

[Guest]

 

[Chrissyg]

Right guys, you can take this to PM's. As far as I see it, its resolved. All parts have arrived, and both parties got what they promised (eventually).