59 replies to this topic

[Venge]

http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?i...Other%20Pistols

Seems china pumped out a new AEP, this time its a beretta.

[Sledge]

So this is the same one RSOV have had for like a month?

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[Catman]

not new news which maybe new news to some

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...howtopic=112446

[Venge]

I thought I found it first. D:

[Pinkfloyd]

I thought I found it first. D:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it's new at WGC, but not entirly new. I remember seeing this about a month ago...

[4dEFCON]

Ooo Marui won't be happy, that was next on their release list. Not often a chinese manufacturer beats them to it! I'll be interested to see how it performs.

[squeakyL]

hmm looks interesting.
two safeties... both the M92 and M93 safeties and the M93 selector system. very interesting indeed.

[donthedragon]

It never fails to amaze me how ugly that stupid trigger guard is for the berettas: the M9 ones are nice but those straight ones are just disgusting. Who knows, in a couple of years Marui might be cloning a Chinese manufacturers' guns.

Viva la revolucion!

Edited by donthedragon, 06 July 2007 - 11:37 AM.

[Pinkfloyd]

It never fails to amaze me how ugly that stupid trigger guard is for the berettas: the M9 ones are nice but those straight ones are just disgusting. Who knows, in a couple of years Marui might be cloning a Chinese manufacturers' guns.

Viva la revolucion!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wouldn't be a clone if they made improvements to the design, as they inevitably will. Marui wouldn't be able to sell a gun that wasn't improved over the chinese counterpart; that's not good buissiness. They will make one, but it will be a better version of it with improved internals and externals, and thus not a clone.

[bluep3ace]

do i see trades!?
well, at least marui develops the whole gun (gearbox) from scratch.

Edited by bluep3ace, 06 July 2007 - 04:46 PM.

[Belladonna]

oh i forgot, trades make the gun perform better...

and designing a gun from scratch doesnt really justify chargeing 4 times the price it takes to make it... just to have a label and some scratchmarks on it.

[donthedragon]

oh i forgot, trades make the gun perform better...

and designing a gun from scratch doesnt really justify chargeing 4 times the price it takes to make it... just to have a label and some scratchmarks on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have a winner! Can I get a yippee ki yay?

If we are being pedantic; I found the quality of the Cyma Glock 18c AEP to be of better value for money than the marui version; does that mean that the Cyma isn't a clone as it is an improved 'version' (imo) of the marui?

Also, by 'improvements to the design', it would no longer be a standard beretta and therefore they would have to release it as another type of beretta; rendering the point that they were going to release a beretta M9 totally useless and inadequate. If you mean 'improvements to the quality of the manufacturing' then I can see your point. However, people are getting sick and tired of paying more than double the price for a gun that is only marginally better than the clone gun. I for one am not going to pay £200+ for a marui with a metal body etc etc when I could spend half that on a decent metal bodied clone and replace any parts that needed replacing for less still.

When companies like marui are showing less interest in their customers' wants; and comapnies like JG, AA and AGM are releasing airsoft versions of guns we have been hankering after for years, is it any suprise that more people are turning to clones?

Lets hope marui, CA and the like step it up a notch and start giving us better value for our money.

Edit: So, if marui make an M9 with better internals and externals it isn't a clone? If that's your argument; then if a Chinese company brought out an M93r which was lower in external and internal quality...surely it wouldn't be a clone? The point is, just because a company has the money to make a gun look and perform better, if there is an M9 AEP already out there it IS a clone. And yes, I realise that I will be bombarded with ''Zomgs!!11, so teh tMg17 is c clone of teh kjW??//''...please, don't waste anyones' time.

Edited by donthedragon, 06 July 2007 - 07:35 PM.

[Rapier]

Methinks TM has a spy in their AEP R&D department. First the USP, now the M9.

[Rob15]

and designing a gun from scratch doesnt really justify chargeing 4 times the price it takes to make it... just to have a label and some scratchmarks on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, R&D and higher production and labour costs couldn't possibly justify a higher price, and distributers really shouldn't be allowed to make a living out of selling TM guns to customers outside of Japan at all.

[SlvrDragon50]

Wont the metal slide kill the frame?

[MagicalNinjaBuddy]

Don't see why it would. The gun is non-blowback...

[SlvrDragon50]

Oh.. heh..

I knew that

[snowman]

oh i forgot, trades make the gun perform better...

and designing a gun from scratch doesnt really justify chargeing 4 times the price it takes to make it... just to have a label and some scratchmarks on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blimey, possibly the most short-sighted post of the year...

Do you honestly believe design and development is virtually free? How much R&D do Chinese manufacturers (with near slave labour costs, remember) actually do? Let me think - Oh yeah, basically none...

I could knock up an AEP in a springer shell, so getting a different model to the market before TM's hardly signs of leading edge development.

Sorry, but whilst cheapskates may welcome Chinese knock-offs, only an idiot would wish to see the Japanese makers go under, because it will be a short step from there to no airsoft development at all...

Cheers

[donthedragon]

I realise that if Marui or KSC etc etc were to lower their prices they would have to as it were, 'lower their quality or marketing standards'. However, my argument is that even die hard fans of marui (me included), are wondering why they are producing new designs at such an alarmingly low rate. The last big AEG hype from Marui that caught most's attention was with the release of the MP7, which was last year if I remember correctly. (I am probably horribly wrong here.)

Now, I also understand that it is not just designing the gun that has to be done correctly. Of course they have to OK everything time and time again with QC, as well as eliminate any of their major problems at the alpha and beta testing phases.

However, they are risking a lot of business by not answering the calls of the Chinese manufacturers, who seem to be producing lower cost, slightly lower quality 'quick' fixes for airsofters. Contrary to this, I am sure Marui are not in the slightest bit worried; as they know that when they actually do release another AEG, it will be jumped upon in epic proportions.

Meh, its a win/lose situation at the same time with these clone guns; we will all buy the marui versions when they come out anyway. Lets just hope they start giving us the guns we really want. We have had the GBB beretta for years now.

[Sledge]

This gun has had basically no design work needed. Look at it. It's a 93R AEP in an HFC M190 body. And those are both clones of TM designs. Yeah, you can buy this now. Or you can wait for the TM one, that probably won't have the selector off a 93R on it, because they couldn't be bothered to make a new design.

Case in point, the DE USP. Yes, it came out earlier than the TM. But what you got was a G18c in a USP body, cos they couldn't be bothered to rework the selector mechanism so it also safed the pistol. Instead, you had the Glock style fiddly switch on the side of the frame.

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Edited by Sledge, 07 July 2007 - 12:01 PM.