tmks88 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 well im planning to build my KJW M700 on HPA or CO2 because the green gas messes up the accuracy with its inconsistency which one of them is cheaper and easier to build? what do i need to build them? i thought that building on air is maybe better, like this one here i would like to hear as much as you know about HPA or CO2 airsoft sniper rifles tell me about your experience with it and also some close up pictures of the magazine(connecting part) would be helpful Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 well im planning to build my KJW M700 on HPA or CO2 because the green gas messes up the accuracy with its inconsistency <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its not the green gas, its that KJW's are ###### Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Is your KJW M700P the "New Version"? This would be indicated by a sticker apparrantly. Must admit my old KJW m700P ran nowhere near as consistantly as my tanaka m40a1. Anyway, to answer your question with only doing a little research myself; HPA is not altered by temperature and will therefore be more consistant. Good Luck Link to post Share on other sites
Gigueand Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 You'll need basically the same gear to run either co2 or HPA. You'll need a regulator (such as those produced by Palmer's Pursuit Shop) and you'll need a remote hose-line. Co2 is not very consistent due to its nature as a solid which expands into a gas when moving into your gun's air lines. Temperature also effects how fast co2 expands. In colder temps, it takes longer and the gas becomes inefficient. HPA is always a gas, whether inside your tank or outside. Much better consistency and is not effected (much) by temperature. co2 tanks are relatively cheap. 20 Oz tanks run between $30 and $40. HPA tanks are more expensive. Some run into the hundreds of dollars. Steel/Aluminum HPA tanks can be found for $50-$80 depending on where you look. I'd try a google search. I advise you to go with HPA as it will be more consistent in the long run. You'll probably end up spending: Regulator (PPS Stabilizer) $80 + HPA Tank (cheapest) $60 + remote hose $30 + fittings (estimate) $15 = $185. Not including shipping to you. Anyway, those prices, etc are just estimates and you should check it all out on google. Any good paintball website will have what you are looking for. Try doropaintball.com for relatively good (as I recall) prices. edit: sorry that the prices are in USD... I only just realized you're from Estonia. Link to post Share on other sites
tmks88 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 i found one tank from a local paintball shop HP airtank 3000PSI + 3k reg Hind - 1090kr=100USD=68EUR 0,8L HPA with REGULATOR. Depending on marker gives about 500-900 shots. so i wanted to ask do i have to buy extra regulator if it already has one? Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Two regulators will give you better consistancy but aren't needed - as this is for a bolt action then you really don't need two. If it was for a full auto gun then yeah two would have helped with consitantancy. Its not the green gas, its that KJW's are ###### <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd agree with that On my Tanaka: I find that the first shot from a freshly gassed mag is always a little high (~530fps) but then it's down to it's set level (500fps) and remains fairly consistant. Link to post Share on other sites
Kristoffer Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Two regulators will give you better consistancy but aren't needed - as this is for a bolt action then you really don't need two. If it was for a full auto gun then yeah two would have helped with consitantancy. I'd agree with that On my Tanaka: I find that the first shot from a freshly gassed mag is always a little high (~530fps) but then it's down to it's set level (500fps) and remains fairly consistant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Err... you need a low pressure regulator like a Palmer Stabilizer or something like that, in addition to the regulator on the bottle. The regulator on the tank takes the pressure from 3000 (or 4500, depending on the tank) psi, to ~800 (high pressure systems like Tippmann 98) or ~300-400 psi (low pressure, Angel, Timmy etc.). You do NOT want to put ~800 or even 400 psi in a pot-metal Tanaka or KJW mag. Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Opps was under the silly assumption the regulator on the bottle was capable of 100-ish psi. And come to think of it I don't think any regulator directly off the bottle is capable of going that low! In that case you definately need two Back to the coffee machine!! Triple expresso, in a pint glass please! Link to post Share on other sites
tmks88 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 how about using Tanaka mags in KJW? does it have better accuracy? Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I've used KJW mags in my tanaka with no apparent ill-effects (at least I didn't notice ) - though the mag didn't last long before it broke and needed major work. Though I'm not the best authority on these rifles; I'd say it was more down to the hammer, hammer spring, hop-up and all the bits in the bolt. Have you upgraded the barrel at all? Link to post Share on other sites
tmks88 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 no i havent upgraded barrel ive had it for 1,5 weeks and it has had some leaks in mag which i fixed now it shoots all the time about 100fps i think its because some gas comes out from the thing what hammer hits, if i press it with my finger i can feel and hear how the gas comes out from there.... i would like to blow up that rifle.... edit: i took the rifle apart and discovered that i just have fu***d up mag... i cant open it because the bolts what hold the cap are too soft and i destroyed one and cant get it out anymore...ill figure out soon how i can get this out Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The problem with the KJW isnt the bolt, battel, mags, any of that. The outer barrel isnt straight, it needs spacers between it and the stock for it to be, if you "free float" it, you'll just snap the reciever the hopup comes apart in 2 peices down the middle and is a peice of utter ######. Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 My feelings on the narks & their clones are well documented: I'm sure there are people out there, who think they have a 'good un', but I've yet to see one. I doubt that just changing the propellant (gas) will sort out all the problems. Read through the Tanaka threads to se what people there think, & have done to sort out their headaches. Greg. Link to post Share on other sites
tmfreak Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 You'll need basically the same gear to run either co2 or HPA. You'll need a regulator (such as those produced by Palmer's Pursuit Shop) and you'll need a remote hose-line. Co2 is not very consistent due to its nature as a solid which expands into a gas when moving into your gun's air lines. Temperature also effects how fast co2 expands. In colder temps, it takes longer and the gas becomes inefficient. HPA is always a gas, whether inside your tank or outside. Much better consistency and is not effected (much) by temperature. The palmer stabilizer can take both Co2 and HPA and even with co2 it is very consistent, showing only +/- 7 fps. I have played paintball for many years and over the chronograph with my spyers and autococker it was very consistent. I thought co2 was a liquid and than became a gas? Link to post Share on other sites
Gigueand Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Yeah, co2 is a liquid. Then expands into a gas. I don't know what I was thinking... Yeah, the stab is a great little reg. I have one mounted on my A-5... But I digress... Link to post Share on other sites
fal Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Option 0: External greengas rig. Made by either HFC or KWC. They often have spare empty canister attached which works as expension chamber. This is good enough for bolty and cheap. Although not a good option in a long run as you have to buy branded gas so you can screw it onto the rig. Option 1: use Tanaka extended mag made for L96 series. It would give ample bit more stability. No hose to deal with. Not a very good value, but a hassless. Option 2: KWC CO2 external kit(Works with small canisters) + PPS regulator for second stage reg, since builtin in reg on KWC CO2 kit is utter ######. This is as cheap as you can go with CO2 setup while keeping the package low drag and light weight. Also you get those coiled hose and little Q/D connector along with KWC CO2 kit, which I like. Because Q/D actualy shuts off the gas when I disconnect. And size is very small which is another plus. Don't worry. They are durable enough. Option 3: If you don't care about sizes and weight, go with either CO2(9oz will be plenty enough) + PPS or HPA, though I think HPA is bit overkill for bolty. You definitely notice the advantage of HPA setup on fullauto and even some semi-auto firing, but hardly any with boltactions. Personaly, I would go with option 1. I just don't like hose dangling from my magazine. I owned Tanaka M700 before and now I own KJW M700 which I customised and tuned it up. I never have problem with fps variation. Sure it's not as stable as springers but it's only little numbers on paper. They don't affect my shot really. FYI, keep in mind that if you leave mags empty of gas, seal shrinks and they develope leakage. So with external setup, you would want some sort of shut off valve fitted at the mag before Q/D fitting, so you can retain some pressure inside after detatching the rig from the gun. Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well.... I have been keeping an eye on this thread with some interest. I shall tell you why. Whilst all this has been going along, I have been patiently waiting for my CO2 kit to wing its way from across the pond. Its now arrived...... The run down of the kit. Palmers Female Stabilizer. http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product.../products_id/37 12g CO2 Adapter http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product...products_id/122 some push fit connectors and a length of hose. http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product...products_id/223 http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product...products_id/120 http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product...products_id/162 HFC VSR gas cylinder. (from a HFC VSR-11 Gas Model) The background: Always had a pathalogical hatred of spring rifles, but the accuracy of the VSR was enough to make me put up with the hassle of yanking a spring about. Got the HFC gas VSR and its accuracy/consistency was poop, I'm talking the sweat from a dead baboons balls. It was consigned to the parts drawer. The mod: Getting this kit to fit did require some modification, but nothing too serious. I had to remove the fill valve on the gas chamber, enlarge the fill valve apeture on the cylinder itself and machine part of the receiver to allow the gas connector to have free movement. I also had a new striker section to the cylinder unit machined so it was compatible with my Zero Trigger. All duly fitted and connected up. The Result: FAN-BLOOMIN-TASTIC. Initial results fired up the garden (about 30m) have retained the accuracy of the spring. There is a bit of flight path wobble, but this could be due to slight over-powering at the moment. Will be setting this up for Cronoing at the weekend and I'll do a full accuracy/power/number of shots per caplet test at the time (weather permitting). I am chuffed to bits. Thanks to MagicTomcat for his assitance in the technical department. The stabilizer and 12g gas adapter is small enough to fit inside the VSR stock, although I shall be mounting mine externally for ease of use (plus its very tight in my modded VSR stock). Now I am pleased..... Gas power, VSR accuracy. JOBS DONE! for anyone with a Tanaka, this is also probably the way forward. **edited for Pedrosalas** Obviously you might want to alter some of your fittings and stuff to suit your own applications (QD links etc). The only real bits that will need to be similar are the regulator and the 12g adapter. Link to post Share on other sites
pedrosalas7 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 hey chef can you post links to what you bought, it might go this route thanks a lot Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Just a quick update for some back garden testing. This is all very unscientific. Three mags worth of 0.36's, so 90 shots from one 12g caplet and its still going. 10mph gusty winds (according to the beeb). Shooting at a 3 inch wide post (poor bird table) at a range of 35m and acheiving about a 60-70% hit rate. Power unknown at this stage. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 The Result: FAN-BLOOMIN-TASTIC. compared to what, what what upgrades, at what fps output Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Compared to the original gas bolt, and I'll quote myself. Got the HFC gas VSR and its accuracy/consistency was poop, I'm talking the sweat from a dead baboons balls It has retained the accuracy of the spring the only upgrades that will matter in this test are the nine ball hop rubber and a tight barrel. and... Will be setting this up for Cronoing at the weekend and I'll do a full accuracy/power/number of shots per caplet test at the time (weather permitting). Power unknown at this stage. I'll be running it through the crono today when I am at the site. Its a bit difficult to get the BB through the hole when its 30 miles away. I'll post more up when I get back. around 1900hrs BST. Link to post Share on other sites
magictomcat Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 ok im back from vacacion^^ so do you have picts? and do you use the BGK with the CO2?with a nine ball hop? Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 MTC... This is in a VSR, not my Tanaka. Unfortunately I bust a hose linkage before I had the chance to set it up correctly, so bit of a disaster there. Was running at around 400fps before I cacked it..... Oh well, time to order some more bits form the states. So back on the pending list for the results on this one. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 MTC... This is in a VSR, not my Tanaka. Unfortunately I bust a hose linkage before I had the chance to set it up correctly, so bit of a disaster there. Was running at around 400fps before I cacked it..... Oh well, time to order some more bits form the states. So back on the pending list for the results on this one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Chef, Did I understand Correctly that you used basically HFC Gas VSR-10 clone, you rigged it up with CO2, 9 ball hop rubber and accuracy barrel and thats it? Would really like to know what you could do with that. In terms of max fps and accuracy at say 70m? Bjorn Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 You understood correctly. Include some barrel spacers too, I think there is a set in there. I'll post some results when I get something tangible to tell you all about. Link to post Share on other sites
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