Best Accuracy & Consistency results?

[charliethegreat]

Hello -

 

Trying to get my tanaka m700 aics up to scratch but would be good to get a few comparisons with any other owners:

 

If you own a m700 based tanaka please post your range / groupings / consistency, and any upgrades you've done!

 

would be a great help - C

[tome]

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/index.php?showtopic=66377

 

not sure if this is what you're looking for exactly but it might help

 

EDIT: also an upgrade guide from the guy that got that 1 inch grouping at 87 feet. I'm liking that mag shim mod

 

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/index.php?showtopic=78922

[greg]

You could always try 'the complete tanaka thread' not a million miles from this one.

 

Good luck 'cos they defy me. Please let me know if you can get one to give consistent fps/hop/accuracy & how to do it.

 

I stuck with vsr's, have two now, both give 8" groups @ 70m.....all year round.

 

I'm sure they're out their, but I've yet to see a narker that can match that.

 

 

Greg.

[The Bushman]

I stuck with vsr's, have two now, both give 8" groups @ 70m.....all year round.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would love to see you prove that on video. Way too many people have guns that do #" groups at #0m but little ever appear to back that up with evidence.

 

As for the 1" groups at 87 feet on that thread.... I looked at the guys photographs and doubted it was 87 feet if I am honest. Do you think his pool really looks that big? In another thread, he says he was firing off the box in the foreground.

 

He says to ignore the other shots on the target as he was "sighting his scope in" but there are only 2 other shots you can see which are a fair way off..... then suddenly he has it bang on?

 

I guess I'm just suspiscious of most things (that helps me in the gaming field btw.)

 

With all these guns around, that apparrantly perform so well.... AEG's will become obsolete on woodland sites very soon. right?

 

Sorry if you feel I'm digging at you in particular, but too many people appear to throw numbers around, that I take with a keg of salt. I presume if you can get 8" groups at 70m every shot, that you miss very very few targets (if any at all, if you aim for the chest).

 

The shim mod looks too simple to me. You see I look at things like that and think... "why didn't Tanaka Works just make it tighter fitting?" well I guess that it is because, if you have the mag pushed up further; it will cause more wear on your seal (bottom of the bolt) when you are cocking it. My own seal is starting to show wear as it is.

 

Also, I find my own tanaka rifle shoots worse if you push the magazine up with your hand.

 

These comments are just my own opinion and not designed to offend. Although, they are designed to warn newcomers to this angle of the sport, who often expect too much of these pieces of equipment.

 

I hope you will come up with some proof to defer my skepticism.

 

Good Hunting

[greg]

I'm a sceptic too. & I'm not about to go out of my way to prove anything.

 

Fact is that about a year ago I set out A5 targets at 10m intervals, on a calm day.

 

Put my vsr on a sponge on the floor & set about firing at the targets with various ammo through a chrono, with a mate at the target end giving feedback after each shot.

 

Didn't record specifics, but did post results on ascock at the time.

 

Spent the best part of a day tinkering with the hop & at that time settling on sgm's as best ammo. (didn't have guarders or blasters back then)

 

After tinkering, zeroed & set hop @ 70m & started firing. I think (did post this) I hit A5 paper 8 times on trot before wind pulled 9th shot off. At that point I'd had enough (me knackered & wind increasing) & measured the 8" group.

 

Although I've done nothing as scientific since, anyone that has skirmished with me (when sniping) can vouch for the accuracy of both that & my subsequent (480mm barrelled) vsr.

 

I posted specifics because I get fed up with vague claims of 'effective range' & video/photographic 'evidence'.

 

I don't blame your lack of faith (after all, this is the internet & who the hell am I) & I am also well aware that both my vsr's are cracking compared with all other softers that I've used.

 

& of course I miss. All the bloody time: incorrect range estimation, elevation of target, hop, movement of target, twig ricochet, me breathing, pulling the shot or firing from a less than perfect position, in a hurry,etc,etc,etc. Not to mention those times when everything seams spot on, but for some inexplicable reason the bb's disappear mid flight, possibly abducted by aliens we've all had 'em. Never happens on the range, in controlled circumstances, but get into a firefight, well!! The gun might be good, but I'm no god

 

 

Greg.

[thewallhitme]

i get some shots, even with my aeg, when im firing away happy as who ever the hell larry is, and then completely out of no where, the shot will curve up and away and go sailing off into the sunset. either i dropped a .2 in there by accident, or the sun draws bbs in, or my hopup did a little dance. for some reason, those shots always happen when its the shot of the day im about to take...

[The Bushman]

Cheers for the response Greg.

 

So therefore from the above we can change your statement....

I stuck with vsr's, have two now, both give 8" groups @ 70m.....all year round.

 

to...

 

"I stuck with vsr's, have two now. One of them gave an 8" group (plus flier) @ 70m..... once on a calm day."

 

I'm going to have to ask you .... were the 10m intervals measured?

 

thewallhitme: You sum up AEG's very well.

[thewallhitme]

its the facinating art of the bb. i would love to be able to talk to them as and them "wtf did you do that for"

 

i can say that my vsr (had a little trouble for a while) is now shooting very nicely. i can guestimate a 6" group at 25-30 meters. its not great, but im being as realistic as possible.

[Hustie]

With a stock tanaka, I wouldn't really expect sterling accuracy, thats what upgrades are for

[greg]

Cheers for the response Greg.

 

So therefore from the above we can change your statement....

I stuck with vsr's, have two now, both give 8" groups @ 70m.....all year round.

 

to...

 

"I stuck with vsr's, have two now. One of them gave an 8" group (plus flier) @ 70m..... once on a calm day."

 

I'm going to have to ask you .... were the 10m intervals measured?

 

thewallhitme: You sum up AEG's very well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bushy,

 

Very good Yes, one of them gave an 8" group (plus flier) @ 70m..........etc,etc. I was trying to keep it short but have now been drawn in.

 

& yes: 10m survey tape for spacing from target to target. Then busnell laser rangefinder to confirm from my shooting position to each target.

 

This was actually done in an effort to understand trajectory & not establish accuracy.

 

I also check the sites on & chrono both guns on a regular basis, wind permitting, & always before & after any skirmish where either are intended to be used:

 

This is done less scientifically by firing at two 12" square metal plates set at 60 & 70m. The guns are supported & fired prone (in this case usually off a pillow). If it's calm I usually shoot a mag (25rnds) to make sure all is well (before skirmish to instill confidence & after to confirm gun is ok.) If it's gusty & the bb's are being blown off, I normally do a few mags just to make sure.

 

I follow the path of the bb through the scope to make sure the hop is doing its thing & nothing 'unusual' is taking place.

 

If there is no wind & I take the time to focus, I can hit both targets about 22 out of 25 shots. The longest run of hits I've had is 13. (then a miss followed by 10 hits, only 24 in mag, so reloaded mag & missed first shot ) I don't take it so seriously these days.

 

Watching where the bb's land I will stick with the 8" figure, in fact I would bet the 480mm one is a little tighter (but what the heck). I really don't feel that 10 or 15% wind falls can be considered part of the group. But perhaps that's where we will remain divided.

 

However, if in the future you want to bare all this in mind when I quote '8" groups', it will save me the trouble of typing this all out again.

 

Just out of interest, (& to save me searching) what sort of groups do you achieve, & how do you arrive at them?

 

I ask because it would help if maybe we established some sort of 'definitive' accuracy system. What determines a sufficient group? 10, 20, 50rnds? More? Shot prone off bipod, sand bag, or viced? Indoors? Ranges proportional to power?

60, 70m for 500fps? Count all shots inc the 'weird ones'. (49shots within 3" but one went & bounced off the ceiling so 24' group ) Pardon me if this sounds a little sarcastic, but it's a genuine call: How do we define accuracy? Perhaps a new post? Unless of course it's an old one that I've missed

 

 

Greg.

[The Bushman]

Many thanks for your reply Greg. Sounds like your VSR fires exceptioanlly consistantly and would be something to be proud of, with such results as you mention.

 

Only "groups" I have ever done were at 7m (see the BB comparison thread) with a tanaka from kneeling (due to my garden layout). Nothing to compare to your own results. Also my own VSR is only stock and now looking abit worn . Compared to the rifles available when I started, its a lightsabre. (yes I am easily pleased).

 

My own 6mm study has been of shooting at metal plates rather than paper. Every event we have a target shooting competition and we do long ranged lob shooting which always involves winds/breeze due to coastal areas. For example :

.

 

I think what people have to realise is that you don't just whap the crosshairs on the target and hit. As you said yourself, to get the familiarity to shoot at these targets took loads of study. Once you had done it, you knew where the aim point was to achieve these excellent shots.

 

The real skill in this sport is being able to judge the aimpoint in a gaming situation within the first 3 shots. Or at least that is how I look at it. Firing Airsoft guns is less technique and and more judgement, in my experience.

 

I would suggest that it is hard to set a standard for groups and that indeed fliers do happen in airsoft due to hop effects and spherical ammunition with no rifling. Just how do you do it?

 

Well lets face it... unless its indoors then the test will be at the mercy of the wind and therefore void in my eyes if you are going for the "scientific" angle.

 

Perhaps there should be a "poor mans" method of trying to quantify performance. ie. a standard set of targets that are avaialable to all, such as:

 

the end of a bean tin

your A5 target

a cornflake packet

etc

 

Then testing how many shots out of 10 hit it at different 5m increments (as measured with a common o' garden tape measure) hit each target.

 

then you could say....

 

"my ^^^^^ rifle managed # out of 10 hit the bean tin. # out of 10 hit the A5 target and # out of 10 on the cereal packet. All at 50m"

 

like I say, it is not exactly scientific, but it could be far easier to compare everybodies guns.

 

Good Hunting