On budget!

[Lucchese]

I'm looking to purchase a budget sniper rifle, at first i was really keen on getting a bolt action but in Portugal airsoft replicas are limited to 375 fps (aprox. 1,33j) so i really don't know if i'd have any kind of advantage against a a.e.g... I would like to know everyones opinion in this mather, is it a huge advantage the accuracy of a b.a. over a a.e.g whit this kind of limitations?

 

 

Depending on the outcome of this thread i'll probably be getting either a D-boys spr mk12, a Cyma M14 or a JG bar-10, wich one would perform better?

[w733commando]

Sniping with an aeg makes about as much sense as toasting bread with a cheesegrater.

[Lucchese]

Sniping with an aeg makes about as much sense as toasting bread with a cheesegrater.

 

and why would that be? do you think that at 375fps a bolt action has any advantage over a aeg?

[Royal-Air-Force]

Rule 1 of sniping- Dont be seen or heard.

 

AEG=loud. You WILL get heard and almost certainley seen.

 

Bolt Action=MORE accurate! and almost silent.

 

Rich.

[Senor Bear]

Rule 1 of sniping- Dont be seen or heard.

 

AEG=loud. You WILL get heard and almost certainley seen.

 

Bolt Action=MORE accurate! and almost silent.

 

Rich.

 

Over-generalising a bit isn't it?

 

Plenty of aegs are quiet, plenty of bolt actions are loud, plenty of bolt actions less accurate than some aegs.

[Lucchese]

what do you think of the ones i mentioned above?

[Senor Bear]

Here is a nice thread on the JG bar 10 - note: there are many useful threads pinned at the top of the sniping haven board

[Lucchese]

i already read it top to bottom, and i still can make up my mind! what's the advantage of a b.a like the bar-10 against dboys spr?

[3vi1-D4n]

Nothing, has no advantages and more disadvantages.

 

A tuned and calibrated AEG can outshoot a tuned airsoft sniper rifle. Just how much you want to dump into the AEG thats all.

 

 

[TheAverageAsian]

Wow that a bit contradictory to the norm, as numerous people will say that a tuned and upgraded VSR could outrange and outshoot any AEG, including serious contenders like TM m14.

 

A spring sniper rifle would generally be more consistent however, as it utilizes far fewer parts.

[3vi1-D4n]

Well its quite simple...

 

Take an upgraded L96/VSR or variant, tightbore and ***fps it. Take a tuned GR25 with tightbored, a G&G L85A2 or a JG Steyr AUG tightbored and ***fps it. Try to hit a coke can at 40m.

 

I will take any of the AEGs listed over the VSR/L96 anyday.

 

And yes I have worked on bolt action and AEGs before, have done very similar field tests before. I would still take the AEGs.

 

But the feel of bolt action is definately different. It makes you think you have added a lot of effort into the shot and when it does hit you think its worth it. It isn't. The time that it takes to pull back the bolt is when I could've taken 3 guys out with an AEG on semi.

[Senor Bear]

Or missed them due to inferior consistency shot to shot.

[Smoke]

Really depends on what you mean by being an airsoft 'sniper'.

 

Do you want to do the whole 'ghillie, stalking, target observation, milsim' type thing?

 

Or do you just want something a bit more powerfull and accurate than the guys with AEGs?

 

If your power limits (remember they're limits, not targets ) are identical for both AEG and bolt action, I would suggest getting an AEG and getting your fieldcraft up to a very high standard.

 

Sniping IMHO is not about the weapon/tool in your hands, but the mindset in your head. You *could* snipe with a springer pistol as it's how you take that shot, and which shot you take, that makes you the sniper.

 

Really think about how you want to play the game, and the right tool for the job will become obvious .

 

Regards,

[Trasher]

Take an upgraded L96/VSR or variant, tightbore and 400fps it. Take a tuned GR25 with tightbored, a G&G L85A2 or a JG Steyr AUG tightbored and 400fps it. Try to hit a coke can at 40m.

Let's see... The GR25 will not work even after you spent $1000 on it. The L85 will tear itself apart w/ that recoil bolt gimmick. The Steyr will have consistency problems (our team's DM struggled with it to no end). The L96/VSR will work 24/7 consistently, more accurately and will handle heavy BBs (and therefore wind) better, will not let you down because of small tuned gizmo inside.

 

Yeah sure, your AEGs will win the "let's hose down the coke can, although even monkey can do that" contest. (pat on the back)

 

My VSR will win the "hit the coke can w/ the least number of shots w/ the least noise" contest.

 

 

Each to his own.

[Parsley]

Let's see... The GR25 will not work even after you spent $1000 on it. The L85 will tear itself apart w/ that recoil bolt gimmick. The Steyr will have consistency problems (our team's DM struggled with it to no end). The L96/VSR will work 24/7 consistently, more accurately and will handle heavy BBs (and therefore wind) better, will not let you down because of small tuned gizmo inside.

 

Yeah sure, your AEGs will win the "let's hose down the coke can, although even monkey can do that" contest. (pat on the back)

 

My VSR will win the "hit the coke can w/ the least number of shots w/ the least noise" contest.

 

 

Each to his own.

 

could not have put it better myself!

 

merry frickin christmas

[thewallhitme]

BAR anyday with a few upgrades. quiet, stealthy and more consistant. AEGs have to much to go wrong.

[Senor Bear]

It makes you think you have added a lot of effort into the shot and when it does hit you think its worth it. It isn't.

 

I guess it is sods' law that someone will spout utter rubbish at some point or another.

[3vi1-D4n]

I guess it is sods' law that someone will spout utter rubbish at some point or another.

 

So is that. Whats your point? At least I haven't put anyone down yet.

 

Let's see... The GR25 will not work even after you spent $1000 on it. The L85 will tear itself apart w/ that recoil bolt gimmick. The Steyr will have consistency problems (our team's DM struggled with it to no end). The L96/VSR will work 24/7 consistently, more accurately and will handle heavy BBs (and therefore wind) better, will not let you down because of small tuned gizmo inside.

 

Yeah sure, your AEGs will win the "let's hose down the coke can, although even monkey can do that" contest. (pat on the back)

 

 

.

 

For the record, the AEGs were tested on semi. From where I am AEGs have to be semi-auto only.

 

And yeah I have used many bolt actions in my time. I have owned, worked on and tested almost every airsoft AEG and bolt action in existence.

 

I can agree most part most Steyrs with just a tightbore is probably not consistent enough to go against a VSR. I also know the issues that prevent the GR25 from shooting perfectly, and I also know the issues with the L85. All issues can be remedied with a few hrs of work.

 

So there are also issues with the Maruzen L96s, tanaka/kjw bolt actions, VSRs. I can list all the issues with every one of them.

 

Have you ever used a 500fps VSR in the rain? Its a very fun experience of seeing BBs drop 10m in front of you cos the hop up just got soaked. Granted not all AEGs are water proof either, but certainly more water proof than a bolt action.

 

Have you ever used bolt actions in dense jungle? How about in sand? Have fun with a bolt action, I know my Desert eagle and my AK74M will still shoot immersed in sand.

 

When each shot is the difference between them being hit and you being hit, you don't want to have any uncertainties in the weapon.

[Senor Bear]

Whats your point?

 

My point is that you are not the one to be dictating to people whether their shot is worth it or not.

You can't go around saying a shot isn't worth it merely because it was from a bolt action or otherwise. Whether it was worth it is down to the individual shooter.

[Trasher]

I know my Desert eagle and my AK74M will still shoot immersed in sand.

Yeah, sure. (imagines Desert Eagle *immersed* in sand followed by muffled sounds of laughing)

 

When each shot is the difference between them being hit and you being hit, you don't want to have any uncertainties in the weapon

The very same reason why I sold my 500fps TM M14 shortly after buying the VSR... And nearly 1.5 years later I use the same rifle w/ same internals while we serviced AEGs who knows how many times. Even my 15+ year old Asahi M60 is more reliable than that.

 

No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[3vi1-D4n]

Did I mention your M14? No. I wouldn't use the TM M14s for sniping if I had a choice.

 

 

Lets look at it this way, I defined "outshooting" broader than just accuracy. Outshooting I would define as reaching the target further with a higher chance of hitting, in both the controlled and the field environment.

 

Both an AEG and a spring bolt action works on a piston compressing air to push a BB forward. Both AEG and bolt action, if all else are kept consistent and conditional uncertainties are to remain constant, they should yield the same result.

 

Of course, what determines accuracy: design construction, structure, rigidity, quality of parts, and then other key components: Environment (related to the workings of the guns), Intent of use, faith on weapon, and user's shooting ability.

 

VSR's inconsistencies, manufacturing flaws, are well known, quality of 3rd market parts are more of a hit and miss compared to what is available for AEGs. With AEGs the main issue is the structural construction and the aligned stabilisation of barrel, and modification on existing parts to work "better" than designed.

 

I can decrease the uncertainties of the construction and parts to the point both rifles will shoot about the same. But there are things I cannot control.

 

I know how accurate VSRs can be, I have used one for quite some time, and while yeah it was extremely accurate on the bench, for me it was more or less more of a fuss to use on the field, as any uncertainty and change in the environment.

 

When using the VSRs I am constantly concerned about small things getting into the barrel, or just leaves deflecting my shots, or rain. In the field, the VSR is treated as a toy, feels like a toy. With a Steyr AUG I know water will not affect whats in the magazine and hop up is kept quite dry if you don't use a soaked magazine. With a semi-auto, I know I can clear my barrel on the 2nd shot if there is anything disturbing the accuracy, I know I will penetrate bush to a degree.

 

Hence, in both an outdoor and an indoor environment I can *outshoot* a VSR with my tuned Steyr AUG compared with a VSR.

 

I do know what I am talking about, I just think you don't see what I am talking about.

 

And as for the Desert eagle, yeah I have immersed my GBBs in sand many times now, cos it sits on my cross draw and I crawl a bit in sand. I have to say, not all GBBs can deal with sand, 2011s generally can't, some berettas can, SIGs can't. I will see if I can do a video of it. I am not amused about the mockery of my comment, since I have been there and done it before its up to you to whether to believe in what I said. If you don't I would rather you say "I don't believe in that" , rather than giving me snide remarks. Grow some balls.

 

 

 

As for the counter argument about what I said regarding what I should or should not decide for people whether "their shot is worth it or not", is fair. Its not rubbish but it was a bit oppressive of me. Sniping is worth it when what you are doing is actually contributing to the grand scheme of the strategic offensive action and conincide with the plan, otherwise its *lone-rangering* self gratification (which is what I see in airsoft players most of the time), and its not worth anything to oneself regarding the game. In our game it is to achieve to the best of your ability the complete a game objective with other people, not to shoot some poor bugger or to hunt people by yourself (unless the game's objectives IS to hunt people by yourself then its different). Social stuff, having a time out and having "fun"experience etc are all side products by playing the game. If you don't the follow the game plan then its just a massive random shootout, you might as well go do shoot people up in a mall.

[Senor Bear]

I do know what I am talking about

 

But most of it is untrue and/or vague.

 

And as for the Desert eagle, yeah I have immersed my GBBs in sand many times now, cos it sits on my cross draw and I crawl a bit in sand. I have to say, not all GBBs can deal with sand, 2011s generally can't, some berettas can, SIGs can't. I will see if I can do a video of it. I am not amused about the mockery of my comment, since I have been there and done it before its up to you to whether to believe in what I said. If you don't I would rather you say "I don't believe in that" , rather than giving me snide remarks. Grow some balls.

 

I know my Desert eagle and my AK74M will still shoot immersed in sand.

 

Which is CLEARLY wrong. No wonder people mocked that comment. NO airsoft gun will shoot immersed in sand, as the bb would not leave the barrel.

 

As for the counter argument about what I said regarding what I should or should not decide for people whether "their shot is worth it or not", is fair. Its not rubbish but it was a bit oppressive of me. Sniping is worth it when what you are doing is actually contributing to the grand scheme of the strategic offensive action and conincide with the plan, otherwise its *lone-rangering* self gratification (which is what I see in airsoft players most of the time), and its not worth anything to oneself regarding the game.

 

Well where I play, the bolt actions and aegs have the same fps limit, so to me it is worth something if I manage to shoot someone through superior camouflage and accuracy.

Again, you are dictating to people what is and isn't "worth it".

I see nothing wrong with splitting off from the main plan of the scenario as long as you stay within the boundaries and rules of the particular site and game.

At the end of the day, you've payed your money for the day, do what you want within reason. If people don't like you not helping them complete an objective their way, that is tough titty.

[Andy_2_cool]

Sniping is worth it when what you are doing is actually contributing to the grand scheme of the strategic offensive action and conincide with the plan, otherwise its *lone-rangering* self gratification (which is what I see in airsoft players most of the time), and its not worth anything to oneself regarding the game. In our game it is to achieve to the best of your ability the complete a game objective with other people, not to shoot some poor bugger or to hunt people by yourself (unless the game's objectives IS to hunt people by yourself then its different). Social stuff, having a time out and having "fun"experience etc are all side products by playing the game.

 

Whats wrong with lone sniping ? If you take players out ..SURELY that would be helping your team in the grand scheme ?

In the games I play its definitely not about MUST WIN! MUST PLAY TO THE BEST TO YOU ABILITY I just try have fun in a safe & controlled environment, something outdoors and exciting to do to take my mind of stress at work .

Also are you not trying to shoot "some poor bugger" as well ? or...do you not fire your gun ? Suppose..why need to? ..it "out shoots" any top tuned VSR.. that would be unfair on those "poor buggers"

 

 

If you don't the follow the game plan then its just a massive random shootout, you might as well go do shoot people up in a mall.

 

What a ridiculous comment -1

 

 

 

 

 

[The Bushman]

"QUOTE (3vi1-D4n @ Dec 27 2007, 05:57 PM)

If you don't the follow the game plan then its just a massive random shootout, you might as well go do shoot people up in a mall."

 

 

What a ridiculous comment -1

 

Agreed, that is a ridiculous statement. Good way to lose an arguement and bring the sport down a level.

 

Merry hunting

 

 

[Trasher]

3vi1-D4n,

 

I'll *try* to be as polite as I can.

 

You can twist it till you want, but a simple design (like the VSR) will always be much more reliable in *any enviroment* than a very complicated one (AEG). Upgraded or not, this principle won't change.

 

You have no considerable experience with bolt action airsoft rifles, airsoft sniping, the effectiveness of snipers in general - that's pretty obvious from your statements. Instead of worrying about leaves and stuff in the muzzle, blaming it on the rifle, it would be a good idea to learn shooting. Or to learn when NOT to shoot.

 

Even NBB, fixed slide pistols failed from moderate, indirect exposure to dust/sand (not to mention immersion), so can we put the "sand proof" Desert Eagle (have you said toy? ) or AEG to rest?

 

I prefer not to address your remarks about "massive random shootings" and "game plan".