22 replies to this topic

[uscmCorps]

Well, it looks like those guys over at RedwolfAirsoft got another exclusive product for resale... the GWS Bizon/Bison Conversion Kit for Marui AKs .

As some of you know, I ordered one of the 50 limited piece production run GWS Bizons (fully built gun, including a full internal upgrade with systema and other good parts) and 6 spare mags (7 in total). My first reaction when I saw the conversion kit listed at Redwolf tonight was something like "Those Mother F***ers..." or something to that effect... It would be just my luck that I paid top dollar for a limited product and then 5 months later, the same manufacturer would come out with a kit of the same gun but at a quarter of the cost... with my blood boiling I clicked on the Bizon link on Redwolf and saw the price... US$1,999.00... and then I let out a HUGE sigh of relief! I paid less for my fully upgraded gun, with 7 proprietary Bizon Helical mags and the exact same parts used as what is in the kit... and still saved some money when compared to just buying this kit on it's own.

Hey at least Redwolf/GWS isn't asking $2,000 for the kit. That would have been ridiculous!

Anyway here's the details from Redwolf:

GWS AK Bison Conversion Kit for Marui AK

Possibly one of the most beautiful conversion kits around has just arrived and it comes in the form of this GWS AK Bison Conversion Kit. It is an all steel kit that includes a 750rds magazine and everything in this kit is pure quality. Not to be confused with some cheaper die-cast metal bodies, this is as good as the real-steel (well, it is made of steel after all). It comes with a pictorial instruction leaflet.

I feel bad for those who buy this kit instead of jumping on the band wagon and buying one of the limited 50.

As for my own Bizon... if only GWS had sent it a day earlier, I would have it by now. Instead I have to pick it up when I get back to LA.

I'm curious if Redwolf will be selling spare mags, or if you just get the one that comes with the conversion kit?

[Doncommie]

Damn, I'd really have liked one of those GWS ones. The cost of that kit is ridiuclous.

So... usmCorps, sure you aren't bored of yours yet? Wouldn't you love to swap it for a G&G RK104?

[uscmCorps]

Damn, I'd really have liked one of those GWS ones. The cost of that kit is ridiuclous.

So... usmCorps, sure you aren't bored of yours yet? Wouldn't you love to swap it for a G&G RK104?

LOL... well considering I haven't even received mine yet...

[sharingan]

i think in some month a chinese manufactor will clone it

[uscmCorps]

i think in some month a chinese manufactor will clone it

Perhaps. Guess I'll have to get as much use out of it as I can till that happens.

[PlasticMag]

The gun's too long. O_o By a lot.

[Galaxy613]

The gun's too long. O_o By a lot.

There are alot of problems with that Bizon kit IIRC... it's definetly not worth $2k.

[Fin]

There are alot of problems with that Bizon kit IIRC... it's definetly not worth $2k.

The biggest for me was they only made hi caps for it......the mag is basically one of those children’s instruments where you get a old bog roll and put peas in it. Rattle-rattle-rattle

A low/ mid version would be awesome

Edited by Fin, 24 December 2007 - 04:37 PM.

[Murph]

The biggest for me was they only made hi caps for it......the mag is basically one of those children’s instruments where you get a old bog roll and put peas in it. Rattle-rattle-rattle

A low/ mid version would be awesome

LOL... Yeah right. Considering the cost of the kit is $2000 how much do you think they'd charge per low/mid mag? ROFL!

[TheMerchantOfVenice]

Once again, a truly custom gun is no longer custom... =/

[IronWolf]

Once again, a truly custom gun is no longer custom... =/

Yeah,

I wish manufacturers would go back to making M16 variants, oh wait...

[HellsAngel]

I love Bizons, but that price tag is *fruitcage*ed...

[Johnny Sasaki]

So who's willing to spend 2K on one and airmail it to China?

GWS has got to be off their rocker if they think I'm gonna spend 2K on a kit...

[Mini-Matt_from_MI]

Honestly, what the heck are they thinking...$2000? No one's gonna fork out that amount of money!
I would have thought the 556 conversion would be alot more.

[k30dxedle]

Hmf, 2K. No thanks, I'll take 2 or 3 upgraded guns + mags + batteries + BBs...

(also, if I'm not mistaken, the mags don't look like that)

[Airsofter777]

Well, it looks like those guys over at RedwolfAirsoft got another exclusive product for resale... the GWS Bizon/Bison Conversion Kit for Marui AKs .

As some of you know, I ordered one of the 50 limited piece production run GWS Bizons (fully built gun, including a full internal upgrade with systema and other good parts) and 6 spare mags (7 in total). My first reaction when I saw the conversion kit listed at Redwolf tonight was something like "Those Mother F***ers..." or something to that effect... It would be just my luck that I paid top dollar for a limited product and then 5 months later, the same manufacturer would come out with a kit of the same gun but at a quarter of the cost... with my blood boiling I clicked on the Bizon link on Redwolf and saw the price... US$1,999.00... and then I let out a HUGE sigh of relief! I paid less for my fully upgraded gun, with 7 proprietary Bizon Helical mags and the exact same parts used as what is in the kit... and still saved some money when compared to just buying this kit on it's own.

Hey at least Redwolf/GWS isn't asking $2,000 for the kit. That would have been ridiculous!

Anyway here's the details from Redwolf:



I feel bad for those who buy this kit instead of jumping on the band wagon and buying one of the limited 50.

As for my own Bizon... if only GWS had sent it a day earlier, I would have it by now. Instead I have to pick it up when I get back to LA.

I'm curious if Redwolf will be selling spare mags, or if you just get the one that comes with the conversion kit?

*faints* OMFG 2K?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!? THAT'S RIDICULOUS!!!!

[uscmCorps]

Finally got my GWS Bizon (the fully built one, not the conversion kit... but they use the same parts). Wrote a brief write up in the GWS Bizon thread here. Basically... This kit is NOT worth $2,000. I spent well under that for the fully built gun, with upgraded internals, Intellect 8.4V 1400mah battery, 6 spare mags (7 in total) and S&H from HK to me in California... and I'm still not sure if it was worth it. So $2,000 for just the conversion kit!?!! AVOID AVOID AVOID.

[Sale]

This kit is NOT worth $2,000. I spent well under that for...

... something that was limited to 50 pcs worldwide. When availability goes down and the product is still wanted, prices go up.

It happened with the Finnish SAKO M92 (civilian RK95) as well. A factory new one could be bought in the late 90's for less than 1000 USD (fixed for inflation and exchange rates). Today the price for a used one is two to three times as much.

-Sale

Edited by Sale, 05 January 2008 - 03:58 AM.

[uscmCorps]

... something that was limited to 50 pcs worldwide. When availability goes down and the product is still wanted, prices go up.

It happened with the Finnish SAKO M92 (civilian RK95) as well. A factory new one could be bought in the late 90's for less than 1000 USD (fixed for inflation and exchange rates). Today the price for a used one is two to three times as much.

-Sale

Perhaps. But the Bizon kit isn't pitched as a limited production run like the full AEG was. Sure the kit may be limited to a few hundred units, but logically, it makes more sense that the limited 50 fully built AEGs would serve as a means to cover the R&D of the gun and then the kit would be cheaper, not more expensive than the fully built gun! The fully built gun itself costs $1,131 (or something like that). The first 50 were sold out in less than a couple weeks. Payment was received soon after. That's USD$56,550!!! I GUARANTEE you there is no way the gun's R&D cost even half that. So then one could say the parts and tooling cost a lot. Well let's look at the parts in the kit. The body and stock of the kit is a modified Inokatsu part. It isn't a newly engineered piece. Barrel, front sight and flash hider: CNC'ed. No molds needed. The upper receiver cover and vented handguard are the only two pieces of the gun that required steel sheet metal stamping. And being that I own the full AEG, and have seen first hand 5 of the Bizon kits... GWS quality control SUCKS when it comes to this product. (For example, on 3 of the 5 kits, the parts were so poorly constructed, that the front and rear sight will never ever align.) As for the mags, their externals may have cost a bit to get the casting molds made, but no more than $4,000 from CAD, to sample prototype, to final production run. The innards of the mag are taken out of a regular 9mm hi-cap mag (which mag in particular I'm still trying to figure out). No man. When you break it down, at US$2,000... 70% of that is pure profit. Still not convinced? My buddy at a HK aftermarket airsoft manufacturer in HK, and another friend at one here in the US, looked at my full Bizon AEG, and the Bizon kits, and both came to the same conclusion: that had they made the same parts from start to finish as GWS did, they wouldn't price the kit at more than $400-500 and the full AEG at no more than $700 (factoring in R&D and production costs). While I know a decent amount about production line assembly and taking a product from the drawing board to final product, these guys have first hand knowledge of what it takes to get something like this done and they both came to the same conclusion.

So while there is cause for this being a bit more expensive due to perceived rarity of an item... I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing clones within a few months. Actually, I take that back... I'd be surprised if we saw clones because I'd laugh at the mere idea of a cloner copying such a poorly designed AEG.

The Finnish SAKO M92 (civilian RK95) that you mentioned. Sure back in the day it may have cost $1000+/-. Was that for a full gun, or just a kit? I'd be really curious to know which of those two it was. And if it was indeed available as both a kit and as a fully built gun, I'd be interested in knowing how the two compared in price. If the fully built Bizon was $2,000 and the kit costs $1,131 that'd make more sense. Because aside from GWS, I can't think of a single other airsoft manufacturer out there who would follow the same business model: producing a non-limited production AEG kit for $2,000, and at the same time a fully built limited production run AEG comprised of the exact same parts as the kit, but with additional parts thrown in such as good internals, plus all the labor involved, plus international S&H totaling to $1,131. It just doesn't make sense.

$2,000... it's still ridiculous. I'm glad to see their SIG 556 kit is available at a more affordable price, but given their apparent lack of, or disregard of, decent QC... I'd be uncomfortable about buying another GWS product ever again.

I should have heeded my friend's warning: GWS = overpriced unique looking AEGs that suffer from poor quality.

[Kousnik]

the thing is guys, people will, some people have more money than sense. Ever been over to the 1000k club thread, some guns in there are well in excess of $3000!


But agreed, china will release one soon enough, but hey, its always nicer to have the real thing (and there is a reliability factor involved as well) which i why i forked out for a vfc aksu when i could of got a clone for a third of the price.