65 replies to this topic

[cosmic]

I havn't seen this anywhere before so thought i'd post it up.

Link

From the image surely this can only be placed in sliding stock armalites or similar OR am i getting completly the wrong end of the stick?!

[Weirdguy]

Yeah this looks like a no-no for folding stock unless you have a really long gun. I do hope it works though.

[lin_pointer]

so is the recoil generated by compresed air in the stock? anyways, id rather have a co2 powered gearbox thats coming for realisim

[lin_pointer]

wait, is the piston attachced to the back creating a hammer effect?

[Magsz]

Im really confused by this...

Is that a promo shot for an upcoming release or is that the original tokyo marui patent diagram that was submitted in 1993?

[DarkLite]

Hmm. PIston is attached to fake buffer tube recoil device via a long rod.

That can't be good for reliability. And I very much doubt it'll recoil much.

[cosmic]

Im really confused by this...

Not the only one

[snorkelman]

by sounds of it part 13 is some sort of rod attached to the piston

as the piston goes back part 13 pushes a recoil weight (part 33 ) against a spring (part 35)

Once the AEG fires the piston shoots forward as normal taking part 13 with it At which point (freed from the pressure of part 13) the recoil weight (part 33) is then capable of shooting forwards under the power of its spring (part 35)

OK so on a 1 joule japanese home market gun Im sure they can stuff a torquey enough motor in to turn over the dual springs but thats going to be a fair amount of battery juice for a 1 joule gun if the recoil spring has any real strength to it

Seems different from what they've done to the new AK Is an equivalent of this in there or has the new AK just been rendered previous generation before its barely hit the shops?

Edited by snorkelman, 01 January 2008 - 11:31 PM.

[RSP1]

by sounds of it part 13 is some sort of rod attached to the piston

as the piston goes back part 13 pushes a recoil weight (part 33 ) against a spring (part 35)

Once the AEG fires the piston shoots forward as normal taking part 13 with it At which point (freed from the pressure of part 13) the recoil weight (part 33) is then capable of shooting forwards under the power of its spring (part 35)

OK so on a 1 joule japanese home market gun IM sure they can stuff a torquey enough motor in to turn over the dual springs but thats going to be a fair amount of battery juice for a 1 joule gun.

Seems different from what they've done to the new AK Is an equivalent of this in there or has the new AK just been rendered previous generation before its barely hit the shops?

Looks to me like 13 is the piston; 31 is the connecting rod. So it seems that the advantage of the system versus just a lump of weight stuck to a piston is that the piston doesn't have to carry the recoil portion's weight on its forward stroke... though it's hard for me to comprehend exactly what causes the recoil and precisely when the recoil portion is cocked and released from the diagram and text.

Edited by RSP1, 01 January 2008 - 11:31 PM.

[Murph]

Reminds me of the failed attempt to put recoil in the TM Uzis.

Keep trying TM, keep trying...

[snorkelman]

recoil weight is released soon as the piston goes forward taking the pressure of the rod off the face of the recoil weight

why couldnt they just have had the piston in the gearbox without any spring at all? Just a rod at rear of it?

piston would get retracted along with its rod, rod comes out rear of the gearbox shell and compresses recoil weight and spring inside the buffer tube

Once the piston reached the end of its stroke the piston would be free to travel forward as normal except now it would be due to the  pressure of the recoil weight and spring pushing the rod (and piston) forward and recoil weight smacks off the front face of the bufer tube. Rather than a spring directly behind the piston in conventional layout.. Or would that be too close to what guarders AEG does already for marui to get a patent on it?

Edit I guess the one advantage of the two spring system is so velocity of the AEG isnt tied to strength of the recoil spring though as RSP1 says there has to be some way that the recoil weight is tripped once the piston is forward (otherwise the recoil weight and its spring is going to act as a second spring driving the piston forward via the connecting rod and play havoc with the guns velocity)

Edited by snorkelman, 02 January 2008 - 12:07 AM.

[RSP1]

recoil weight is released soon as the piston goes forward taking the pressure of the rod off the face of the recoil weight

why couldnt they just have had the piston in the gearbox without any spring at all? Just a rod at rear of it?

piston would get retracted along with its rod, rod comes out rear of the gearbox shell and compresses recoil weight and spring inside the buffer tube

Once the piston reached the end of its stroke the piston would be free to travel forward as normal except now it would be due to the  pressure of the recoil weight and spring pushing the rod (and piston) forward and recoil weight smacks off the front face of the bufer tube. Rather than a spring directly behind the piston in conventional layout.. Or would that be too close to what guarders AEG does already for marui to get a patent on it?

I think, in a very general, vague, likely incorrect way, that during the rearward stroke the recoil weight setup is 'cocked' and then 'released' near the very end of the piston's travel by some kind of catch, rather than just being pushed back by it and following it straight back. That way the extra weight doesn't get dragged along by the piston on all of its forward stroke. It would also make the 'recoil' more distinct from the 'there's a piston moving about in here somewhere' feeling.

I don't see this in the diagram which is why I think it's wrong, but it seems it would make more sense as the way it is appears to be nothing more than a lump of weight stuck on the end of the piston, just positioned in the stock. So I'm trying to come up with some kind of justification for this and that's what my mind has thought of so far.

Edited by RSP1, 01 January 2008 - 11:49 PM.

[cosmic]

So it seems that the advantage of the system versus just a lump of weight stuck to a piston is that the piston doesn't have to carry the recoil portion's weight on its forward stroke

So faster and less stress but surely if the motors driving 2 springs isn't that going to eat battery power?

[Crispin1025]

Something tells me this can't be a good thing for reliability's sake.

Cheers,
Daniel

[RSP1]

So faster and less stress but surely if the motors driving 2 springs isn't that going to eat battery power?

I think I'm defending here some kind of totally irrelevant design that exists only in my head and is sort of like a clone of the TM system, except made by 10 monkeys in a room with typewriters for 8 minutes. But as I imagine it the, um, the um, er, the thing, with the stuff, goes and does various actions to stop the one bit from putting too much stress on that other part, with the poky things.

...some kind of magic dust is involved in this design somewhere if it's anywhere as good as a normal AEG. Operating of course off of my engineering expertise as previously demonstrated.

Edited by RSP1, 02 January 2008 - 12:00 AM.

[scooberoo]

Thing is, without the rod screwed to the gearbox, the retractable stock/buffer tube assembly would fall out.

There has to be a simpler way to attach the stock assembly to the body. (like in the real guns).

There's probably another diagrame showing everything in finer detail. I guess releasing that to the public would be nice for the competition.

[snorkelman]

Thing is, without the rod screwed to the gearbox, the retractable stock/buffer tube assembly would fall out.

There has to be a simpler way to attach the stock assembly to the body. (like in the real guns).

There's probably another diagrame showing everything in finer detail. I guess releasing that to the public would be nice for the competition.

not if they've moved away from securing the buffer tube to the body via a dirty big bolt into the back of the gearbox - if the M4 its going in is alloy bodied theres no reason why it couldnt use a proper buffer tube setup as per the SP M16

if its a patent application they have to show all details and as its a patented design theres no real worry in showing the competiton once they've filed the patent anyway  

[FarEast]

I will ask the TM boys about this on the 5th and 6th. See what they say...if anything.

[r.ocelot]

Mind asking them about the 5-7 as well?

[TDS]

It doesnt seem like a connecting rod to me, seems like the piston will work both ways soon, and when cocking will fire a weight backwardd