Stealthbomber Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Just got around to fitting Deans connectors to a mate's P90 (which I've been saying I was going to do for nearly a month so, erm... ). Anyway, it is a TM P90 shooting at 1J. No idea what upgrades it has. Suffice to say it sounds healthy and, as I say, is shooting at 1J. Battery connector is a stock TM mini connector and the gun still has the fuse in place. I used the following batteries (all freshly charged):- 8.4v 1,100mah NiMh mini. 9.6v 1,600mah NiMh mini. I recorded the ROF with the standard mini connectors and obtained the following results:- 8.4v mini c/w mini connector: 12RPS (720RPM) 9.6v mini c/w mini connector: 16RPS (960RPM) I then lopped off the mini connectors, replaced them with Deans' and recorded the ROF again, with the following results:- 8.4v mini c/w Deans connector: 14RPS (840RPM) 9.6v mini c/w Deans connector: 18RPS (1080RPM) So, there you go. Replacing Mini connectors with Deans connectors gives you an extra 2 shots per second. Worth the effort? For laughs, I then tried firing the gun using a couple of BIG batteries I happened to have lying around, just to give people an idea of how much difference the discharge rates of a cell makes. I used the following batteries:- 8.4v 3,300mah NiMh large. 9.6v 4,000mah NiMh large. These were already fitted with Deans connectors so I can't compare the before and after ROF. Anyway, I got the following results:- 8.4v large c/w Deans connector: 18RPS (1080RPM) 9.6v large c/w Deans connector: 22RPS (1320RPM) So, there you go. Big batteries are better than little ones. No surprise there then, eh? Incidentally, the other thng that's (vaguely) interesting is the totally linear way everything increased. The difference between Deans and mini connectors was the same at both voltages and the difference between 8.4v and 9.6v was the same with each different size of battery. Oh, one final thing... Cos I lopped the connector off the P90 and a couple of connectors off the various batteries I hooked a couple of them together to check the resistance. Turns out that the resistance across a mini-connector is around 0.2Ω By comparison, the resistance across a Deans connector is 0.1Ω I thought I'd mention this cos I've heard people saying that the resistance across a mini-connector is around 5Ω and I always knew that was utter nonsense. While I'm at it, I just checked the resistance of the fuse in the P90 too. It is 0.1Ω Kinda ruins the whole "fuses increase the resistance of the circuit" theory, doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
Delfi Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Kinda ruins the whole "fuses increase the resistance of the circuit" theory, doesn't it? They do if they blow Link to post Share on other sites
sharingan Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 nice test dude.....which batterie brand did you use? Link to post Share on other sites
Rogal Dorn Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Cheers Stealh, I'm currently rewiring my m4 to have a crane stock and i was considering swapping over to deans connectors, after reading this i'll definately be doing it. Going from 8.4 mini with tamiya connetors if the hand guard to a 9.6 with deans in a crane stock should give me an increase of around 360rpm. sweet! Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 They do if they blow If a fuse blows there is no circuit. My large 9.6v battery is made from GP cells. My 8.4v one is made from Sanyo cells. The other guys mini's are covered in blue shrink wrap. They're from Z1 and, poking in the end, I think they're Sanyo cells too. Link to post Share on other sites
Delfi Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 If a fuse blows there is no circuit. Only if the fuse is fully in vacuum ... otherwise there's a circuit but with a bloody great resistive gap Link to post Share on other sites
FaRKle Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Interestingly enough, with my G36 I figured out that you don't need the front wiring and can attach the battery directly to the first tamiya connector coming off of the gearbox. When I did this I gained 3 rps. I wasn't running any fuse either. Switching to deans for me added another 3 rps. Link to post Share on other sites
galactica Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'm running 4-pin XLR connectors from a G&P 9.6 3300 Mah direct to the gearbox on a Jg G36. Stock, 18rps on a madbull chrono. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Interestingly enough, with my G36 I figured out that you don't need the front wiring and can attach the battery directly to the first tamiya connector coming off of the gearbox. When I did this I gained 3 rps. I wasn't running any fuse either. Switching to deans for me added another 3 rps. That's because: 1) You bypass the fuse 2) You remove a relatively large amount of wiring from the circuit 3) You remove two mini tamiya connectors from the circuit This news of deans etc is interesting. I might get off my *albartroth* and Dean-ificate all my stuff now. Link to post Share on other sites
Glenn Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I've been a fuse free, Deans user for a couple of years now. I like em. Link to post Share on other sites
transist Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 While I'm at it, I just checked the resistance of the fuse in the P90 too. It is 0.1Ω Kinda ruins the whole "fuses increase the resistance of the circuit" theory, doesn't it? Was that just the fuse itself or the connectors as well? I'm not worried about the fuse so much as the shoddy connectors/holder that the fuse is in sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
amateurstuntman Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Yet another example of the sort of public service posting that stealth is synonymous with. A great example of a forum member who's contributions are constructive. Thanks mate. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Was that just the fuse itself or the connectors as well? I'm not worried about the fuse so much as the shoddy connectors/holder that the fuse is in sometimes. That was measured by touching the mutleymeter probes to ends of the wires either side of the fuse so it includes the fuse and the nasty connectors. Incidentally, when you think about it, I got a 2rps increase by swapping a 0.2Ω mini connector with a 0.1Ω Deans connector, a change in resistance of 0.1Ω. A Deans connector has 0.1Ω resistance, a mini connector has 0.2Ω and a fuse has 0.1Ω. By removing a mimi connector AND a fuse you're removing roughly 0.2Ω so you'd expect an even bigger increase than swapping from a mini to a Deans. ...if you see what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites
Treadhead Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Cheers for that Stealth, you mine of information you! Guess now I've got to get off my *albartroth* and put all my guns onto deans... (as opposed to the one on deans and the rest on tamyia) Link to post Share on other sites
FaRKle Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 That's because: 1) You bypass the fuse 2) You remove a relatively large amount of wiring from the circuit 3) You remove two mini tamiya connectors from the circuit This news of deans etc is interesting. I might get off my *albartroth* and Dean-ificate all my stuff now. The fuse was already removed before. Ideally the wiring itself would have a resistance of 0 or extremely low, so I think we can pretty much say that the majority of the ROF increase was attributed to removing one of the mini connectors from the circuit. Link to post Share on other sites
CharlieQB Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I always new this was the case deep down (Deans Vs Tamiya), but never got round to getting off my *albartroth* and proving it! Ok, so it might not be worth making the change just from a performance side of things, but they do conduct power better, save a little space and do away with annoying bent pins! Good stuff Stealth. Link to post Share on other sites
r0b0tic Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Good job! Always good to know stuff like this. Of course its recommended to switch to deans as soon as possible... they are one of the best connectors in the RC industry. Now get a mosfet with a resettable fuse and gain a few more RPS + safety [= Link to post Share on other sites
Daemondog Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Good job on the review. Link to post Share on other sites
sealone90 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 And here is something else I noticed when using deans that I would like to share. A battery will last just a little bit longer with deans versus other connectors. It might only be a hicap or 2 but it's still that many more shots off the same battery and less time switching batteries. Link to post Share on other sites
Azulsky Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Just had a rewiring job on my mc51 done with a Mosfet and Deans + resettable fuse, went from 17-28 rps, besides systema standard ratio gears and metal bushings those were the only upgrades done to the gun, measured with madbull chrono Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Just had a rewiring job on my mc51 done with a Mosfet and Deans + resettable fuse, went from 17-28 rps, besides systema standard ratio gears and metal bushings those were the only upgrades done to the gun, measured with madbull chrono So what you are saying is that you got 11 rps more from new wires, mosfet, deans and resettable fuse? Are you sure you did not change anything else in the gearbox? Bjorn Link to post Share on other sites
Azulsky Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 nope nothing changed at all besides what listed. Spring is a PDI 120% that put out ~345 fps prior to this testing motor is an eg1000 not eg700 as the gun was originally a hk51. Link to post Share on other sites
sc0rp10n Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 One thing to note about Deans is that if you don't care for the pressure tabs on the connectors you will have shorting issues. You must always ensure the arched tabs on the opposite sides of each tab have tension and are able to seal the Deans firmly. We just have our first broken Deans on the team in 5 years last week. We couldn't figure out why the MG36 would just stop firing mid burst and the MOSFET would overheat very quickly. Low and behold one of the tabs on the Deans had snapped and was not giving enough pressure to hold the connections firmly. Quick solder job and we've been slinging plastic ever since. Oh and Azulsky, I'd be very curious to see pictures of the Madbull chrono for that kind of jump. I'm not calling you a liar, I just have a hard time believing the numbers you stated. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Same here.... i understand that you get something like 5 more RPS from new wiring and connectors and fet unit, but a whopping 11rps is a lot. Maybe the old wiring was damaged? Bjorn Link to post Share on other sites
transist Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Yeah, I'm skeptical too. 11 rps is a helluva lot for just improving the wiring. It would make more sense though if your original wiring was utter *beep*. Link to post Share on other sites
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