London mayor says don't get involved if you see trouble..

[DyNo!]

Opinions?

 

By Charlotte Gill and Paul Sims

Last updated at 11:57 AM on 03rd July 2008

 

 

Boris Johnson has called for witnesses to crimes to not get involved

The risk from violent crime is now so high that people should walk away if they see someone else in trouble - in case they end up losing their own life.

 

 

That was the depressing warning yesterday from the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson.

 

He said he would tell his own children to 'look after themselves first' rather than help a victim in distress.

 

The comments follow the knife murder of 16-year-old Ben Kinsella after he tried to break up an argument outside a North London bar at the weekend.

 

In another example of violent, broken Britain, a former soldier died yesterday after being attacked on a bus by thugs he had asked to stop swearing.

 

Father-of-three Stan Dixon, 60, politely asked them to stop using bad language in front of his partner.

 

To avoid trouble, the couple decided to get off early.

 

But as the bus doors opened, two men pushed Mr Dixon violently to the ground, leaving him with massive head injuries.

 

Mr Johnson's warning is a dramatic change from his stance last year - when he told citizens to 'take a risk' and tackle thugs, saying the chances of being stabbed were 'microscopic'.

 

Since then, there has been been a horrifying death toll of innocent people simply trying to stop violence.

 

One high-profile victim was Harry Potter actor Robert Knox, 18, stabbed to death outside a bar in Sidcup, South London, in May as he tried to protect his younger brother.

 

Mr Johnson, who lives a few streets from where16-year-old Ben Kinsella was attacked, revealed what one 'very nice ex-jailbird' had told him - 'If you see a fight in the street, don't risk it because someone might have a knife.'

 

The mayor added: 'I'm afraid that may sound like a lack of public spirit if someone is being badly attacked. But if I was giving advice to my kids and there was a bar brawl in Islington, it would be to look after themselves.

 

'Everybody is shocked by the level of violence we are seeing, particularly towards young people, and we must all work as hard as we can to reverse this dreadful trend.'

 

The mayor spoke as Scotland Yard chief Sir Ian Blair revealed that more than 1,200 people had been arrested and 528 knives seized in a major operation launched six weeks ago.

 

Nearly 27,000 youngsters had been stopped and searched.

 

Sir Ian said 95 per cent of those arrested are now being charged, up from 80 per cent when the operation started.

 

He warned young people: 'My message is "don't carry a knife" because if you do, you're probably going to end up in prison.'

 

Mr Johnson urged parents, relatives and friends to 'shop' youths who carry knives to the police.

 

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith claimed yesterday that knife crime was no worse than before, despite the spate of shocking youth murders.

 

Speaking on GMTV, she said: 'Knife crime, although we are very worried about it, is no more serious than it has been previously.'

 

But hospitals yesterday reported a massive upsurge in child stab victims admitted to accident and emergency, particularly among the under-16 age group.

 

The figures were revealed by the Daily Mail on Saturday but released officially yesterday.

 

In the youngest age group, the number of children seeking treatment for stab wounds rose by 88 per cent, from 95 in 2002-3 to 179 in 2006-7, the latest year for which figures are available.

 

Among 16 to 18-year-olds, there was been a 75 per cent growth, from 429 to 752.

 

The number of adults attending hospital with stab wounds rose by 27 per cent over the same period, from 3,745 to 4,786.

 

 

LibDem spokesman Chris Huhne said of the hospital figures: 'These appalling figures show that the Government's strategy for tackling teenage knife crime is failing abjectly.

 

 

'Ministers claim crime is falling, but these figures show serious attacks that require hospital admission are up.

 

'They cut through all the problems with the crime reported to the police and the lack of information about teenagers in the British Crime Survey.'

 

Last month, a Government adviser warned that Britain was becoming a 'walk on by' society.

 

In a report ordered by Downing Street, Louise Casey said people were terrified they would either be attacked themselves or face arrest.

 

She said the change in attitudes - blamed on a loss of trust in the police - could let crime 'strangle whole neighbourhoods'.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...ed-trouble.html

[Pte Mong]

i couldn just walk on by.

the victim is someones child/parent.

 

the scum who commit these cowardly murders deserve nothing less than something really nasty and not appropriate for posting in such a large open forum. but it wouldn be nice. oh no.

[Kraut]

Even if you did subdue the attacker, wouldn't you yourself get in trouble by the nannypolice? Good lord, where do they store all your confiscated testicular fortitude?

[Pte Mong]

i store it in my wife...... fnarr

 

 

to qoute from the article, anyone found carrying a knife will PROBABLY go to jail. thats ace that.

 

and yes, excessive use of force will get you in trouble.

 

THANK YOU CHERIE BLAIR.

[HaVoC]

He warned young people: 'My message is "don't carry a knife" because if you do, you're probably going to end up in prison.'

 

I carry a knife every day. A Spyderco UK Pen Knife SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to fit within the UK law, which states that you can carry a knife without a locking blade and with a blade length of less than 3.5" without reason.

 

Therefore, if I was stopped and searched and the Police tried to confiscate my knife, I would be super-p****d. Random stop-and-searches are not only based on the absurd profiling of "all young people are going to stab people", but are also based on the absurd profiling of "all young people carry knives" and "all knives are evil tools of death".

 

I'm not going to stab anyone. Christ, the thing is NON-LOCKING, making it a very poor self-defense/aggressive choice anyway. It's the person, not the knife, which causes a stabbing.

 

This pathetic generalisation about 'people who carry knives' is sickening. They are tools, arguably man's oldest, and are tools I and many other responsible people find extremely useful many times a day.

 

Apologies for the rant, but this seriously gets my goat. I am now just as scared of being harassed by the Police in a random stop-and-search for carrying a knife that I AM LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY than I am of street crime. And when that's the case, there's something rotten in your country.

[Spedz]

rant

 

Ruh-roh. I can here Ghost_Rider calling in the background.

 

[Edit]Tags.

[Crazy_Harry]

YAY, CONSERVATIVES!!!

 

I carry my lightening wit, my fists, and , on occasion, a small bottle of fnar-fnar juice.

 

of no use whatsoever in a melee, but it gets you ###### and dulls the pain while you wait for someone to stem the bleeding...

[Agent47]

YAY, CONSERVATIVES!!!

 

I carry my lightening wit, my fists, and , on occasion, a small bottle of fnar-fnar juice.

 

of no use whatsoever in a melee, but it gets you ###### and dulls the pain while you wait for someone to stem the bleeding...

 

what happened to guns for show, knives for a pro...and a ruddy great box of dynamite?

 

(oh wait...)

[Chimpy]

Not getting involved is most definitely the best course of action in keeping yourself safe. That much is entirely obvious. I think intervention is going to be entirely situationally dependent. I've certainly got involved to stop fights that my friends have been involved in or about to be involved in. However I've ignored other people fighting.

 

Havoc - You should checkout the laws on offensive weapons. Everyone is legally allowed to carry spanners and screwdrivers on them 'without reason' both will get you nicked for carrying an offensive weapon under the wrong circumstances. A UK legal folding knife is exactly the same.

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section12/chapter_c.html

 

You should also get familiar with the Police rights to stop and search. Although the chances of it happening are minuscule.

 

http://www.apa.police.uk/NR/rdonlyres/6603...fletEnglish.pdf

[Sale]

There is an effective way to stop someone getting beaten, without sacrificing your own life trying to save another one, and even without harming the assailants in the vast majority of cases.

 

So let's go through that once again:

 

-It saves the victim

-You don't get killed in the process

-Even the attackers remain unharmed

 

Hmm... What could this magical device be?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's called a handgun.

 

-Sale

[jollygreengiant]

Its called a car

[liquidflorian]

It's called a handgun.

 

-Sale

 

That is so true the US supreme court put that in their heller decision...

 

I don't know how the British government can do this. Can't new legislation be brought in allowing upstanding citizens to carry a handgun for self defense?

 

Mr. Johnson's statements are disappointing. Shouldn't whitenesses to crimes call for the police if not able to stop an altercation?

 

[Chimpy]

There is an effective way to stop someone getting beaten, without sacrificing your own life trying to save another one, and even without harming the assailants in the vast majority of cases.

 

So let's go through that once again:

 

-It saves the victim

-You don't get killed in the process

-Even the attackers remain unharmed

 

Hmm... What could this magical device be?

 

All of my incidents have involved alcohol to one degree or another so I wouldn't have been armed even if I could have been. Stupid things, stupid places with stupid people!

 

On a side note do we have to make every thread on self-defense about gun control? I realise it's an effective tool but its not the be all and end all especially if you happen to live in Europe!

[Azubi]

That is so true the US supreme court put that in their heller decision...

 

I don't know how the British government can do this. Can't new legislation be brought in allowing upstanding citizens to carry a handgun for self defense?

 

Mr. Johnson's statements are disappointing. Shouldn't whitenesses to crimes call for the police if not able to stop an altercation?

 

By the time the police arrive, the attacker will already have gone. Only twice, I have ever seen the police respond to a call fast. One was when an ex-member of the family rang the police whilst drunk and told them we were holding her hostage at gunpoint on new year's day. The other time was when, after waiting 30 minutes after the first call, rang back and told the police that the (asian, although I didn't mention that part) gang were shouting racist abuse and still causing trouble. They arrived within minutes and I was pretty much laughed at by the copper and told they highly doubted I was a victim of racism and I could be done for wasting police time. Ahhh, thank you labour government.

[Xaccers]

That is so true the US supreme court put that in their heller decision...

 

I don't know how the British government can do this. Can't new legislation be brought in allowing upstanding citizens to carry a handgun for self defense?

 

Mr. Johnson's statements are disappointing. Shouldn't whitenesses to crimes call for the police if not able to stop an altercation?

 

We don't need it, you see, as a nation, we have this thing called "common sense"

You may have heard about it in your history classes.

It enables us, for starters, to understand that when someone says "Don't get involved" it doesn't mean "Don't do anything at all, not even call the police/ambulance"

It also enables us not to do silly things like shoot ourselves in the head while half asleep and trying to answer the phone, or shoot our wives through the wall when using a gun to drill a hole, or shoot our wives and children for insurance money.

It also lets us know that handguns aren't some magical mystical device which will always save you and more often than not, get you killed or injured, or worse, kill or injure a bystander.

[Chimpy]

It also lets us know that handguns aren't some magical mystical device which will always save you and more often than not, get you killed or injured, or worse, kill or injure a bystander.

 

This sentence makes no sense Xaccers. Unless it was supposed to be along the lines of:

 

It also lets us know that handguns aren't some magical mystical device which will always save you and instead more often than not, get you killed or injured, or worse, kill or injure a bystander.

 

In which case it would make sense but doesn't seem factually accurate.

[thewallhitme]

havoc: why do you carry a knife around in public? there is no need for it.if you use it at your place of work then i can understand that you are just taking it somewhere you will need it, but to just have it with you for the sake of having it with you is rediculous and not to mention dangerous.

 

some guy with a knife asks you for your money, then he notices you have a knife aswell, he might see that as a threat to himself so you really are putting yourself at more risk. also, carrying a knife around for "self defence" is what all the gangmembers say, and then they go and stab someone offencively.

 

wht ever happened to the days when men challanged each other to a fair fight, drew a line in the ground and went at it with a bit of honour? now its all "get 6 of your mates and jump someone when they least expect it, then go around thinking your cool"

[Chimpy]

wht ever happened to the days when men challanged each other to a fair fight, drew a line in the ground and went at it with a bit of honour? now its all "get 6 of your mates and jump someone when they least expect it, then go around thinking your cool"

 

These days never existed unless you happened to be an upper-class twit.

 

"The only fair fight is the one you lose"

[DyNo!]

Even if you did subdue the attacker, wouldn't you yourself get in trouble by the nannypolice? Good lord, where do they store all your confiscated testicular fortitude?

 

I can't figure out what their soldiers are fighting for.

 

You can't make this stuff up.

[chas]

A handgun! Damn, thats the greatest idea ever. Let everyone have a gun so they can defend themselves and break up fights; but ONLY if they promise never to use it to attack/kill/injure/mug/threaten/rob/etc. anyone.....

[Carrion]

because knives are a useful tool.

 

ill accept that most people cant find a use for a knife of hand but there are jobs which cant be done without them and some hobbies demand knives are carried.

 

 

 

 

[Spedz]

What? I'm being serious. I don't understand what you're trying to put across.

[L4byr1nth]

Just give EVERYONE a handgun. If someone pulls theirs on you, at least you've got equal means by which to defend yourself.

 

It's better than facing 6 chavs with bats and knives, knowing that in the *fruitcage* country, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't....

 

Ben.

[Pte Mong]

this topic wasnt started to discuss gun control. valid and relevant infromation and enlightening opinions have been put forward but i think the point of the original poster was that Britain is in such a suitcase state that the mayor of our capital city has basically told everyone: your on your own, dont get involved; keep your head down and your nose clean, and hope all this nastiness blows over.

 

what ######s.

 

until everyone in the Westminster Ivory Tower (who by the way responded of calls for restraint on their annual pay review and accepted a 'meagre' 2.5% at a time when the average family cant afford to heat their home or run their car. 2.5% of £80,000 is still a lot. and they keep their unregulated 'expense' accounts) come down and live in the real world, put more police on the streets, throw the Human Right Act out of the window or even better ram up up the Blair's arsses, the UK will continue to be a ###### place to live.

 

phew. i feel a bit better now. like going for a big poo.

[Chimpy]

Whats wrong with the Human Rights Act? :S