Kai_Wolf Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Hey guys. I have a 1911 with a custom kit on it (another nova) that has the Custom airsoft Surgeon blow back chamber in it along with a nineball piston head, guarder recoil and hammer springs, ect and the gas consumption is not exactly where I would like it to be. I built on like it before, but for some reason, this one can maybe shoot 7-10 shots, if that, before loosing power. Ive built a guarder based kit before and I could shoot almost an entire mag, if not the entire mag before loosing power. The slide and frame were fitted so im not sure if it is the slides friction or not. Please, if anyone can help, let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
Wege Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 one like it or one the SAME as it? I can guess that the head can be slightly off? I can also guess that you are using a higher % power hammer spring? I also guess that you are filling the magazine correctly. If so, I would expect to see that a lesser amount of rounds fired. I can also guess that HK or Sale will be along soon... Link to post Share on other sites
SniperSidd Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 The piston seal in the loading nozzle is bad. The O ring that comes with the AS BBU is slightly too small to get a good and proper seal when firing. I had to swap mine out for the O ring that comes with the Nine Ball piston head. or if you are lucky you can make a trip to the hardware store and find one that will fit, one that is ever so thicker will work. Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Oh thank you so much! Now just to clearify, my gun is not leaking gas, it is just running out of gas in about 7-8 shots (audibly and slide wont lock back). This is due to the small oring in the BBU right? There is no gas actually leaking out when not firing. Also, should I switch back to using the normal hammer spring? Or keep the guarder one? Will there be enough force to push back the CNC machined slide? It feels rather light, but it has a 150 spring behind it. Will this make a difference? Please do let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Well, here is what I did. I opened up the gun and found that the blowback chamber AND the piston were not screwed in all the way. They were a bit loose. I tightened them all the way and made sure they wouldnt rattle. I then replaced the hammer spring to the stock one. I tested it out and found little difference, which was frustrating. At 10 rounds, the slide still wont even lock back due to the lack of power. I tried using the variety of Orings that came with my m500 shotty, all were too big for the nozzle to fit over. I suppose this is a problem with the O ring? It seems to fit the nozzle just fine, but as you say, your's was too small. Could you explain the issue you had and the result of getting the new o ring? With the symptoms Ive just stated, do you think the new oring will solve the issue? Thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites
SniperSidd Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Yes I was having a similar problem. the slide was not kicking back all the way. The problem is the fit difference isnt really that noticeable unless you really sit and check is side by side with other seals. After i did the O ring swap and found the right one I haven't had a problem with it running out of gas at all, its running great Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 I went to the hardware store today and all they had was the same sized O ring I already have in the piston. Aside from buying a nineball, (this is dumb to ask I know) do you know what size the Oring might be? Some sort of number or something? The only larger ones I found were ones which were too big to fit. Also, I want to try something. I am soaking the Oring in silicon oil for around 5 hours. Do you think this would swell it at all to fit the piston more snugly? Thanks again Sidd! Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hey guys. Just an update. I added a 6.01 tightbore to it AND soaked the Oring in silicon for about 5 hours. Worked wonders. It now shoots 13 rounds AND locks back hard. Judging from the lock and the ammount of gas in it, it can shoot 14 or 15, but 13 is safe. I think though, I am going to buy the POM kit for that O ring just to be safe Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I have the same issue with my TM P226. It vents gas out of the chamber with every shot and loses power after 5-6 shots. It has the following upgrades: PGC P226 Aluminium Frame & Slide Set (Non-Railed) Guarder Enhanced Loading Muzzle Firefly Rocket Valve and Piston Head Set 3no. NINE BALL Magazine Valve Set NINE BALL Hammer Spring (CURRENTLY FITTED: Stock KJW Hammer Spring) NINE BALL 6.03mm Inner Barrel Enhanced recoil spring Any ideas? I first tried switching out the hammer spring for a weaker one, but it didn't really make much difference. The cycling action and the like are butter-smooth, so that's not the issue. Then it was suggested that a stock TM piston head (the rubber bit) might work. I need one. Does anyone have one, or know where I can get one? Is there a more rugged one made by a different manufacturer to the same dimensions? I've been to hardware stores and bought about 5 packs of O-rings, not a single one of which was anything approaching suitable. It's a beautiful gun and I want to get it working after sitting in a box for 18 months. Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 It also may be the valve in the magazine. Ive read that using one decreases gas efficiancy, but not by that much. Im sure it has to do with the piston. Maybe the O ring like mine. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I've tried switching the valves out for stock TM ones but it didn't help at all. I think I've basically narrowed it down to the piston head, but now I need to actually find one. I could also do with the screw, since the whole Firefly assembly seems different. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 HaVoC: The PDI Winter piston head comes with a screw and it's the best option especially for metal kits round the year. I've got them in my G17 and P226, and have installed quite a few of them to others as well recently. The Guarder loading nozzles (or muzzles as they call them ) are a bit oversized, so it may be part of the cause for inefficiency. Also, check that the seal between the magazine and loading nozzle is good. Put tape on the inside top of the slide to shim the GBB unit lower if necessary. On to the topic: Should I switch back to using the normal hammer spring? Or keep the guarder one? Will there be enough force to push back the CNC machined slide? It feels rather light, but it has a 150 spring behind it. Will this make a difference? Please do let me know. In almost 99% cases the original hammer spring works better in every regard, except that the velocity is slightly lower. The original hammer springs provide faster slide action both ways, lower gas consumption, reduced wear and a lighter trigger pull. If I ever need to increase the hammer spring tension, I first adjust them slightly with 0.5 mm shims. Instead of spending hours and hours to search for different size O-rings that would finally fit, I just pack the piston head groove with PFTE (teflon) "plumber's tape" to expand the O-ring to fit. If the difference is too large and would require a lot of tape, I choose the next size up and sand the inside of the O-ring if it's too tight initially. Swelling is another good trick. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Kai_Wolf Posted July 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Yeah, swelling seemed to help it a whole lot, as did the tightbore for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 To Havoc - Ditch the Guarder loading nozzle, I find them to always be a problem in P226s and 1911s. Also the FireFly units aren't the best pistons around, so I would swap to a PDI or Nine Ball (I prefer Nine Ball myself). The FireFly rocket valve probably isn't doing you any favors as well. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I replaced the stock loading nozzle with a Guarder because the gun destroyed the stock one. The little nobbly bit on the bottom just sheared right off. I do actually have another stock one that I can try, but I'd rather stick with the Guarder for durability. I'm gonna switch the piston head out for a PDI Winter one on Sale's advice, and see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites
hkssr20det Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Try the stock one. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I haven't installed it, but just feeling it out by hand, I feel no discernible difference in resistance over the O-ring between the stock and Guarder ones. The seal appears to be about the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Romulus Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 It may be a difference that only shows up on a chrono. A while back hkssr20det and I were working on one one my guns (1911) and ran the same setup with a Guarder LN vs a stock LN. It turned out that even though I couldn't see or feel a difference there was a very noticeable difference in number of shots fired and power (the exact numbers escape me at the moment). Link to post Share on other sites
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