The Safeguarding of Children and Vulnerable Persons Act Options

[Boom3r]

The Safeguarding Children and Vulnerable Persons Act 2006, some of which has come into force for the purpose of the making of regulations, ie, the regulations are being drafted and whilst the target date was the 1st of October 2008 it might slip to 1st April 2009, creates the concept of a regulated activity.

Airsoft sites which permit those u18 to attend are regulated activity providers. All employees, whether they be Marshalls, First Aiders etc with have contact with children now have to be vetted by the CRB. Previously most sites had 1 or 2 Child Protection officers who were CRB checked. A file will be opened on that person, proofs of identity and referees have to be supplied and a CRB check done. As the file is opened it will be monitored over time. Those who have what are deemed to be relevant convictions or questions against them will be referred to a barring panel.

Perkins Slade/RSA have already begun informing sites of the increased regulatory burden. Some have decided already that they will not continue to have U18s on site. So their Child Protection cover has been withdrawn. In effect the insurers have said we will not cover you unless you comply with the provisions of the act and our terms for continuing the insurance cover.

Leisure Insure have only ever offered child protection cover as a bolt on. So those sites that have not opted in were never covered in the first place.

For those sites who have previously thought I'll take the risk and not insure but still allow U18s to play, the rules have changed as it will be/is now an offence for the employer to allow unvalidated employees to have contact with children.

A child as defined by the The Childrens Act is someone under the Age of 18.

As the regulations are not fully finalised it is difficult to say what will be the position when everything comes into force. The insurers seem to be adhering to the letter of the act at present as that is all they can do.

All sites are going to have to decide whether they are going to adhere to the act and so be eligble for insurance cover if anything happens or to decide not to have U18s on site.

I am now led to believe that the relevant regulations will come into force in April 2009 and not September 2008 as was planned by the Government.

ACT

Commencement Order 1

Commencement Order 2

Further Home Office and Police Information


This post has been edited by Boom3r: Aug 27 2008, 09:34 PM

[cafemondo]

Do the sites that have chosen not to have under 18 then not have enough under 18 to justify the cost of the crb (criminal record bureau) checks? I see it as just another business cost to pass along to the customer, as well as being a way of weeding out the bad. Cost is £36 per person so its fairly low and only needs to be done the once. There is no requirement to have it updated thereafter.

Been running crb checks on staff since 2002ish as Im a activity provider working in the youth leisure sector primarily involved in adventourous/dangerous sports. Its not a problem or much of a hassle and its par for the course and gives your organisation more credibility.

If children want to play then their parents should be the ones to stump up the extra cash for the checks so that their children can play. I cant see any parent here disagreeing with the crb system and the way in which it has to be delivered and paid for.

[The General]

Well, I guess if it helps safeguard children and allows new players to experience our hobby, then I think its a good thing.

I would certainly want to know than my kids (if I had any) were being looked after by people who had been checked out by the relevent authorities.

[Hedganian]

I doubt it helps to safeguard children, and it certainly won't help new players to experience airsoft (since it will make it harder to find a site allowing under-18s in, due to increased red tape and costs).

Maybe they should stop letting convicted peadophiles out of jail, then we wouldn't need CRB checks before letting people be airsoft site marshalls, scout leaders, teachers or whatever else.

[Mike_West]

Wait, in the UK it's the employer's duty to make a CRB checks for new employees? When my friend was applying for a job in banking over here, she had to get a paper similar in function to CRB check herself.

[Hedganian]

In my experience, the employer pays for and applies for the CRB check on behalf of employees. Whether they *have* to do this or are just doing it as a courtesy, I don't know.

My experience includes teaching and working for the Army Cadet force, so essentially government work - you'd think they'd know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[The General]

Of course it will help safeguard children! It costing money to run these checks is irrelevent.

Making sure a sex offender is not getting to children via airsoft is worth it. Children ought to not be in the hobby if we cannot say we have checked the staff's suitability.

[Hedganian]

All a CRB check can find is any criminal record you might have. What if you've not been caught yet?

While I certainly agree that convicted peadophiles shouldn't be allowed to hold jobs where they may be in contact with children, it's certainly the least useful way of ensuring child safety. What if the peadophile lies? Uses fake details? Many of these deviants are clever, you know.

It's the same sort of thing as all the metal detectors and thigns at airports - it isn't there to stop terrorists but 1) to make it harder for them and 2) to show something obvious to the public to make them feel better. The real safeguarding goes on behind the scenes.

[Hispeed1]

1 name, 2 words: Pedo bear.

[Senor Bear]

I, for one, would agree wholeheartedly with a programme of sterilisation of paedophiles.
That or hanging from the neck until dead - better option as it means no money being wasted keeping them alive in prison, and no excuses for letting them out.

Other than that, I think this act is a good stop gap until capital punishment comes back.

[stoneDUK]

[quote name='The General' date='Aug 28 2008, 04:50 PM' post='1880574']
Of course it will help safeguard children! It costing money to run these checks is irrelevent

No im sorry you are wrong!
This "checking" will not safeguard children; they still get through the net.
The crb is a simple "being seen to do something" and find employment for a few thousand office drones!
I have been a member and playing at fireball for a long time and my 14 yr old son has been going for about 2 yrs.
then ken explained what was happening with the insurance and the crb requests, I was not happy but I can understand that the members were not prepared to undergo crb checks into their lives and past just to conform to some government paranoid program.
I would not too!!!
These checks would cost them money, and invade their privacy.
I now take my son to Hilton Park.

People must take responsibility for their own actions

[Skarclaw]

Am I right in saying you have to get a background check to get a job as a teacher?

Cause the guy that taught RE at my old school was a nonce. Wanted to play quake 3 with me and phoned up when I was at home to tell me how to connect to his server (no, thats not an innuendo)

[Hedganian]

The CRB checks are a relatively new thing. Depending on how long ago you were at this school, it could well predate the requirement for existing staff to be checked in order to retain their current jobs.

And of course, as I mentioned earlier, if you've never been charged/convicted, then you have no criminal record to check - doesn't mean you haven't committed numerous crimes.

[m3nf]

In basic it is a very good idea, though if you volunteer to work for a person which some airsoft marshal do then there is no cost for check, the same also goes elsewhere in the working field, so hopefully the costs can be kept down for airsoft company's and only need to pay for paid employees which then is a small amount to pay for some piece of mind for the customers. No it will not stop people slipping though the net, there are ways around most system, but it will make it harder. And i for one would happy undertake checks to help out.

[Jagdraben]

The CRB checks are a relatively new thing. Depending on how long ago you were at this school, it could well predate the requirement for existing staff to be checked in order to retain their current jobs.

And of course, as I mentioned earlier, if you've never been charged/convicted, then you have no criminal record to check - doesn't mean you haven't committed numerous crimes.

And you point is... what exactly? That people should be held accountable for crimes they have not been convicted of and may not have committed? Or that any pre-employment background check is prone to failures due to the nature of the legal system? Or something else?

[swedge]

Its not just paedos these checks are for.... I have had many many of these done over the years (and agree that they are partially a money making scheme) as I used to be a freelance dance teacher.. every different council area or community group I worked with I had to get a new check done.
First it was the SCRO check (Scottish Criminal Records.. something), now it is Disclosure Scotland.
It is a bcakground check showing all convictions/offences etc.. a copy of which usually gets sent to you and one to your employer (who also usually picks up the bill), then looking at your disclosure they can decide whether you are suitable for the job in regards to any offences you may have commited... for example you may have charges for grievous bodily harm and you are applying for a job as a self defence instructor - your employer may regard you as a risk to the clients...

I believe that these checks are a good thing, but that someone has to take overall responsibility for deciding who is suitable.. There are 3 of us who run Airsoft Asylum in Scotland and we also have at least a half dozen stand in marshals, if we all go through a disclosure check, who decides if we are suitable?

If you see what Im saying then this could be a can of worms!

[benben]

From the website linked in the first post:

Currently we estimate a total of around £21m will be spent developing and setting up the scheme.

Obviously protecting children is incredibly important, but is this really the most cost-effective way of doing it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[benben]

Its not just paedos these checks are for.... I have had many many of these done over the years (and agree that they are partially a money making scheme) as I used to be a freelance dance teacher.. every different council area or community group I worked with I had to get a new check done.

One of the most annoying things is that the certificates they so carefully send out are good for one use only - I've had to be CRB checked (wasting time and money) several times for different things because each time it needs to be re-done. Silly!

[Pablo]

Obviously protecting children is incredibly important, but is this really the most cost-effective way of doing it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Wrapping them in cotton wool every day would cost around £45 billion* - and that's if they're kept at home and don't go anywhere. I'm afraid I don't have costings on using Bubble Wrap instead.

*figures taken from www.howmuchwoulditcosttowrapallthekidsintheukincottonwool.org

[Hedganian]

One of the most annoying things is that the certificates they so carefully send out are good for one use only - I've had to be CRB checked (wasting time and money) several times for different things because each time it needs to be re-done. Silly!

Yeah, but if you think about it - you could commit crimes after being issued with a CRB check, so if no further checks were done, convicted criminals could be hired on the basis of an out-of-date clean CRB check. Probably not a good thing.