14 replies to this topic

[Malo]

Airsoft Retreat reports that Airsoft Solutions are now offering new seamless 6mm paintballs that are advertised as being safe to use with AEGs and GBBs without jamming/breaking.
They also claim that they are perfectly round, 100% biodegradable and non-toxic (edible).

If they are so durable that they wont break inside the gun, one would assume they must be fired at even higher velocities than previous 6mm paint BB's in order to break reliably, even though they make the very optimistic claim that they are "Guaranteed to fire straight and break on any firm target or Vest".
I can't imagine these being very usable within UK fps limits, since they have such a low mass they must be fired at extreme velocities in order to break reliably on soft surfaces (clothing), at anything further away than at point blank range.

However, in countries where there are no such fps limits, I'd imagine they could be pretty useful when organising CQB tournaments, because of the marking capability (i.e. less cheating potential).

Since the BB's break on impact the force is distributed over a wider area and should hurt less at very high velocities than a solid BB (just me making assumptions again).

[Dithindious]

Lets face it they will never be perfect. I think the idea is cause they are so round they dont break inside the gun. they say they only have a semi FIRM shell as opposed to old models having semi HARD shells. i think what they are getting at is that they are weaker than the old ones but they are almost perfectly round causing stoping them from breaking inside your barrel. So i think they will burst at range but if ur usin them its best u use them on semi auto..... with no hop up!!

[Puzo]

Im tempted to use it for target shooting and general plinking.

Anyone care to buy some and write a review?

[rhino]

I won't be using 'em, that's for sure. If i wanna play paintball, i'll join a paintball club.

[Guges Mk3]

I can tell you that 6mm Paintballs will Never work.

And if you read their ad closely, its says "recommended for spring only".

Last fall WGC sent some 6mm paintballs for me to test. Weight was on average ~.11g, I outright asked if they feed in an AEG, they kind of hesitated and said no…but you can use them in GBB’s, with stock barrels.

Upon receiving them I found they were quite round…but about one in five exceeded 6mm tolerances (tolerances should be 5.95mm) The shells are harder, but still could be broken if you squeezed the rounds hard between your thumb and index finger.

I was able to load 7 rounds in a KSC Glock 17 GBB before one broke in the mag. I cleaned it out and was only able to load 8 before breaking another in the mag. I just then only loaded 6. With hop up off, a hop-up system is still really on, when it’s turned to the lowest position in a pistol. Using regular green gas, because ambient temp was 65 degrees, I fired one round into The ArchAngel. I was aiming for his gut and it hit him in the neck and didn’t break, range 12 feet, ~3.5 meters and he said it stung.

Then I unloaded all remaining 5 rounds aiming at his ass now for he turned around to protect his neck. All he wore was a fleece vest…and only 2 rounds broke out of the 6 total that hit him in the chest.

Now here is the problem:

For these rounds to work in any gun that has hop-up you have to slow the round down, so the back-spin does not affect its trajectory. If you drop the speed you drop the range. So…in effect…it’s no good.

I was also able to load 8 rounds into a UHC Springer with no hop. The shots came out relatively straight up to 5 meters, ~18 feet...but then they started to float like a "knuckler" and accuracy was horrendous. The Man sized silhouette had a 18”, ~290mm group on him…with only 5 rounds hitting the target and 3 outright missing him completely…range 25’, ~7 meters.

So the cons are:

Low Inertia – attributes to poor accuracy.
Brittle shells – not good for AEG’s still and barely useable in a GBB
Stinky Artificial Blueberry Smell in an organic base for the fill. It maybe non-toxic...but that does not mean edible. Wood is non-toxic...but they are not edible.

The surface area is to small and the mass is to light to envision these 6mm paintballs working correctly for engagement ranges over 15 feet. Now instead of a paintball, use a compressed color powder round…that would work as a “marking” round for airsoft. It wouldn’t break on soft targets, it may crumble, but it would “puff” beautifully on hard targets, goggle, gear and masks.

If you can imagine what type of accuracy you get with poor grade .12’s, you will know exactly what these 6mm Paintball Rounds will do.

Edited by Guges Mk3, 29 April 2005 - 07:15 PM.

[McMadkat]

hmmm I have just ordered some paint BB from HK to try in a springer...wont risk it in my GBB though.

[Malo]

And if you read their ad closely, its says "recommended for spring only".

No it doesn't, it states that the competition is "recommended for spring only", while theirs is recommended for "AEG's, Gas & Spring".

It maybe non-toxic...but that does not mean edible.  Wood is non-toxic...but they are not edible.

They are edible "The only 100% biodegradable, non-toxic, and edible paintball."

The whole point with this is that this is supposed to be a new generation of 6mm paint wich does not jam inside AEG's and GBB's internals.
Your previous experiences with older generations of 6mm paint are the same as everyone elses, including mine, these new paint BB's are supposed to address some of those problems, that's the whole point.

Previously 6mm paint would only make sense (in theory) with gas guns using the BV operating mechanism such as old JACs, where the mag was air tight and the BB's fed by gas pressure instead of from a spring, and thus less risk of being deformed inside the mag.

[rhino]

Why would anyone want to eat a Paintball BB?

[Guges Mk3]

Its light weight...its going to be inaccurate as hell. I have those very same ones sitting on my stairs right now...from when I tested them last year...They won't work very well trust me...they are just to light. If they made one at .20 grams...then i will be interested...but your not going to be able to produce a liquid round that heavy unless you used heavy elements like pb (lead) in solution. And then there goes the non-toxic rating...

And stability high??? for how far? 15 feet?

Edited by Guges Mk3, 29 April 2005 - 07:55 PM.

[Guges Mk3]

Why would anyone want to eat a Paintball BB?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Weird rituals...I knew a paintballer that would swallow one round before a tournament game round.

[rhino]

Each to their own i suppose!

[Catchv22]

I prefer not to get my gear dirty with odd bright colored paint splotches. If I wanted that, I would've worn Alpenflage.

Honestly, these seem very pointless to me... They're only .1 grams and they'll probably cost more than regular bbs.

[Magsz]

Airsoft is a game of honor.

The people that dont call their hits get taken out to the parking lot and beaten with m60's. We dont need silly ass paint to regulate our sport.

[Malo]

First of all, It was pretty clear from my first post that these would only be suitable for CQB, i.e. very close range, and would be a good thing in CQB tournaments because of the marking capability.
There is no need to rehash anything that was already pointed out in my first post (low mass, limited effective breaking range, requires very high velocities to break on clothing).

Now, a 0.1g BB fired at 325 fps translates to only approximately 0.5 joules, these 0.1g paintballs can be fired at 465 fps and still be within the UK limit of 1 joules energy.
Granted they'll be very unstable and highly sensetive to wind with such a low mass, but a Tanio Koba Twist Barrel*, with the hop-up disabled should dramatically increase flight stability due to the rifling, and BB drop would most likely not be noticable at the effective breaking range of these paintballs.

In the US, where a 1.5 joules limit is common on many fields (0.2g at 400 fps), one of these 0.1g paintballs could be fired at 560 fps and still be under the 1.5 joules limit.
And since the paintballs break on impact and distributes the force over a larger area, there is less pain and less risk of penetration at velocities exceeding that (unless they fail to break, in that case it's quite painful, any paintball player can tell you that).

These things opens up the possibility of competitive CQB airsofting (paintsofting?), because of the marking capability, something wich was previously pretty pointless since there was no good way of judging wether or not a player has been hit (in competition honor goes out the window, players are less likely to call their hits than in recreational skirmishing).
And now it seems you can finally use them in AEG's and GBB's without worrying about ruining your gun.

Also, airsoft as an option for force-on-force training has not been very widespread due to the lack of marking capability.
Simunitions, Real Action Markers (replicas firing 0.43 & 0.40 caliber paintballs), and even unrealistic standard 0.68 caliber paintball markers with silly hoppers and huge CO2 tanks has been much more common than airsoft in this field.

Even if airsofters refuse to accept this alternative for CQB, GBB's with paint BBs as backup sidearms for Real Action Markers would be very useful, as the RAM pistols are less realistic in operation and a pain to reload (CO2 capsule and stick magazine needs to be reloaded separately).


Anyways, If these new paint BB's actually does prove to feed reliably through GBB's and AEG's then that is a step in the right direction, and they would for the first time in history actually have some limited usefulness.


* The Tanio Koba Twist Barrel uses rifling in conjunction with standard hop-up, wich results in a two-axis spin on the BB to achieve both stability and range at the same time, it's Koba magic, don't ask my why a two-axis spin works, it just does.
So it would be a very good investment either way.

[McMadkat]

moronic post by me. ignore.

Edited by McMadkat, 29 April 2005 - 10:08 PM.