L85A1?

[tweeeeeak]

I was looking at aeg's and im kinda having trouble on what to buy. right now im kinda leaning towards an L85. can i get some opinions? >.<

i wanted one cuz its something that not alot of people use and its accurate(supposedly)

 

the only problems i saw was that its limited in upgrades like Grenade launchers, i think they only have one out for $260!!!! T.T

[Panoptes]

Why not go for a Star L85A2? The best of the bunch by light-years.

 

 

[col.parsons]

There really are a lot more questions in that one simple post than you'd expect

 

First off, what's your budget? This will determine whether you can buy X brand, Y brand, or save up for Z brand At the moment there are 4 brands of L85 replica (going from cheapest to typically most expensive) - Army, G&G, ICS, and Star. The Army and G&G versions are both L85 A1 replicas, which was the original SA80, whereas the Star and ICS versions are both L85 A2 replicas... but there are still a few differences there as well!

 

The Army "R85" is the cheapest, being a clone of the G&G model, both of which have a blowback system. This caused problems on the G&G, and saw most owners disengaging/breaking it to allow the AEG to work. On the Army version, however, it has been reported to cause quite a few problems - solved by simply locking up using the in-built system. Unfortunately, Army are still suffering from a pot-luck quality-control process, with some getting decent runners and others (most) having complete paperweights

 

The G&G L85A1 is the mid-range offering, and has reportedly been reworked, altough reports are still lacking on performance. Whether this is because people are still waiting to see, or they just haven't bought them, I don't know. Not knowing anyone who's got/had one, I can't give any more advice.

 

The ICS offering is the newest, and one of the more expensive versions. Whilst having a fairly decent look, being modelled on the latest version (factory-new) L85A2 with new foregrip design, it's overall build has been geared more towards ease-of-use than authenticity. It has the easiest battery compartment of all the SA80 replicas, with a large button to take off the foregrip instead of screws, and accommodation for a standard large battery pack (the others require small or custom packs). So far, I've only come across one of these in person, and it's actually running very smooth - which is odd for an ICS!! Despite the obvious design detractions from the RS, it's actually very difficult to tell the ICS apart from any other L85 from a distance

 

The Star version is still the best-selling, and most widely used (afaik), and I have personal experience as there's one in my armoury A beautiful replica of the RS, the only inaccuracy is that it's 1" too short - and this took a few ex-forces guys I know a while to figure out! They are 1:1 weight-wise, which means you'll be handling something extremely sturdy, and the balance is very nice due to the bullpup design. The battery is quite fiddly to get at, so I would recommend getting the biggest capacity custom pack you can find, putting it in, and leaving it there - charge the thing whilst it's still in They shoot fantastically, sound great, and are just awesome - you will not be disappointed!! Unfortunately all this comes at a cost, so be prepared to pay hansomly for this AEG.

 

And finally - unfortunately there aren't many external upgrades for the L85, as they don't really exist in the RS either!! British forces are not known for "bells and whistles" on everything, so accessories tend to be kept to a minimum. Grenade launcher, extended front end for that, SUSAT (Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux), and an adapter for the weaver rail (as it's 1:1 size, so won't accommodate standard RIS accessories!) are about the only things you'll get for them

[Panoptes]

^ Just to add, there is a 19mm>20mm adaptor rail for L85 so you can fit ACOG etc

 

 

[mikoyan99]

I should say that as a replica, I still feel the star offering is just terrible and the G&G/Army the best. I can't comment on internals, but my mates stock Army (blowback disabled) has never let him down.

-Matt

[Panoptes]

Can't comment on the Army/GG but I'd say the Star is virtually identical to the real thing. It fools a lot of people.

 

 

[Counting Count]

Just to add a few corrections to col parsons post G&G do both the A1 and A2 versions of this weapon, and the standard 19mm dovetail will accommodate an ACOG / Elcan style scope no problems, no need for a converter (I have seen them fitted without them).

 

I personally own the STAR, and have handled / used the other versions and the only one I'm personally not that keen on is the ICS version, you can get RIS / RAS Adaptors for this weapon but weighing in at almost £400 for this is a little steep...

 

http://specialforceskit.co.uk/store/sa80-p...c33cb540a592286 if your interested.

 

Quality control for all L85 models at the moment is a little shocking, whereas the STAR offering is a PITA to work on (all those small screws) the G&G feels quite flimsy / has noted QC problems, ARMY (a clone of the G&G) is pays your money takes your choice, and ICS are on there first production run.

 

STAR L85's are one of the more reliable L85, G&G are good with little details not on the STAR one (Bayonet notch for instance, fake metal heat shields in the hand guard) but these have had a bad press with them in the early days (much like the real L85A1) I've not seen or had a fondle of the ICS version so I cannot say anything about them, however there are some strange little details I've never seen on an L85 (A1 or A2, Big button on the hand guard etc.)

 

One thing to note on the L85's (any type) is the hand guards do not exactly meet standard specifications (I'm mounting the correct flash light from back when I was in, and some trimming is needed for it to lock into position.

 

There is some strange issue about the rails being different on the STAR, G&G / ARMY versions by about 1mm in total, this could however be a coat of paint on the G&G / ARMY.

 

Blow back - well this is a nice little gimmick but to be honest it eats battery, can damage the somewhat fragile cocking handle (all makes and models) and usually ends up deactivated / removed by many players.

 

 

 

[RSM]

I've handled the real L85, STAR, Army and own an ICS L85 replica. The best one for materials in respect to closeness to the real thing would be STAR, ICS then Army. Having not handled the G&G I can't comment. The ICS 'inaccuracies' are very minor and unless you are a pedant for trades and 100% dimensional accuracy they do not detract at all from the appearance and feel of the gun.

 

Its funny in a way that despite being a niche rifle the L85 is slowly beginning to turn into M4, I remember years ago it would often be duked out on here about whether to get a CA, G&P or ICS Armalite and each time a number of things would be touted, mainly build quality, performance out of the box, reliability, upgradeability/ease of working on, extra features and trades and depending on what the user wanted they'd make their choice.

 

I got my ICS for free winning it at a national skirmish, but I could write near endlessly about why I would reccomend it over other makes, instead I'll do a brand by brand write up on the makes mentioned thus far

 

Star L85A2 (has A1 bolt conversion available)

 

Build quality - Feels very much like the real thing in materials and heft, the latter being a downside as it is a weighty AEG, has correct trades but a minor dimensional inaccuracy around the barrel (think this is to stop people fitting the easily available bayonet) and safety

 

OOTB Performance - Variable due to less than stellar quality control that has plagued STAR when they first brought the gun out, the one I used (which had been downgraded to 1J by the shop it was bought from) had a slight left hook near the end of the flight path, it was however predictable irrespective of wind so could have been a bedding in issue. Either way I could confidently hit a target about 25m away which I would say is a benchmark for a stock gun in the UK.

 

Reliability - See OOTB performance, later models may have be under stricter QC but

 

Upgradeability/Ease of working On: This is where the STAR falls down majorly. Not so much that it cannot be upgraded, its just a pain in the jacksie to get into the gearbox. Has a degree of proprietary parts (hop and nozzle off the top of my head) but the gears/motor are at least standard, as is barrel, rubber, piston. Gearbox is polycarbonate which limits uber high FPS upgrade potential but they originally came shooting at 400fps with the motor being the thing most likely to go. Think the spring FPS has gone down while motor reliability has gone up.

 

Extra features/Trades/Anything else - Features a spring release, only make with attendant UGL upgrade. All trades present and correct. Requires a custom form factor battery

 

Army L85 (Note lack of 'A1', the Army lacks the mag release guard of the A1 and A2)

 

Build quality - Cheap and cheerful would probably best describe the build in my opinion, it'll stand up to typical skirmish handling but I have seen people lose bits (cocking handle, issue now fixed I believe. Other thing was a front end falling off) from rougher handling. It sort of tells you its been built down to cost.

 

OOTB Performance - Like most clones this replica actually punches above its weight when it comes to skirmishing performance but like most clones the lemon rate is a bit higher.

 

Reliability - Clone/Lemon rate aside, the gearbox has a mechanical linkage to the cocking handle increasing the chance of a significant mechanical failure. Due to the use of an 18 tooth piston (Standard is 16) and semi precocking gear set up, the chance of piston stripping is inherently higher at UK FPS levels using typical battery voltages than a standard design unless you fit a 16 tooth conversion kit. As you are in the US I think the design would be fine at its stock FPS and used with an 8.4v battery.

 

Upgradeability/ease of working on - Take down is significantly easier than the STAR and the gearbox is a split design (like the PSG meets ICS V2) makes upgrades easy. As has been said the piston is an 18 tooth type but with a conversion kit you can install standard compression parts. The gearset spur gear is unique as far as I can tell but standard bevel and sector gears can be used.

 

Extra features and trades - Magwell spring release, requires a different custom form factor battery to the STAR. Has bolt hold open functionality

 

What I've said above pretty much goes for the G&G bar the OOTB performance and build quality where the G&G I'd say would rate higher. G&G provides A2 flavour as well.

 

ICS L85A2 (Only available in A2 variant)

 

Build quality - As said before, its second to the STAR because its built from a lighter metal than the real thing/STAR but the plastics feel similar. Some minor dimensions are off but most are done in such a way they look like they are meant to be there and generally make things easier for the owner. Only downside for me is the way the cocking handle/fake bolt can flex so your cocking handle can bend off axis, simply enough to just bend it back. Only noticed when it was in a gun bag at the bottom of a roof box with tonnes of other camping gear ontop of it.

 

OOTB Performance - Relatively standard at UK performance but can very easily be improved

 

Reliability - I've only seen one report on here of one getting sent back to the retailer for repair and this was as far as I could tell to do with the way the wiring can put a bit of a strain on the motor spades but as the guns haven't been out as long its hard to guage reliability at different FPS etc. Having taken mine to bits there really isn't anything that makes me think 'yep, theres an obvious point of potential failure' other than anything you'd find in any AEG (premature engagement)

 

Upgradeability/ease of working on - Take down is a piece of cake on this, however it is a mix of standard and proprietary parts. It take standard gears, short motor, piston and springs. Piston head is a custom vented type that can be replaced with a standard type but I can't see any reason why you'd want to. Spring guide is a variable position one allowing you to increase precompression (FPS) of the spring, its metal and bearing type so again, its not lacking in any way Cylinder head is V2 type. Tappet and nozzle are proprietary but nothing really wrong with them. Hop unit is unique and is a pressure relay type so is very good for holding setting/trajectory consistency. Wiring is set out in such a way that you can easily mosfet it up. Downside of the hop unit is that it cannot take a H bucking without minor filing of the hop arm to re profile it.

 

Extras - Only features receiver trades, handguard trades are absent, as are fire selector markings (Even though they are in the manual). Also features a hold open functionality. Can comfortably take up to 9.6v large standard packs and up to 12v 4/5 sub C packs. Comes with two hicaps rather than the typical one highcap/standard cap mag

 

 

Hopefully that will be of some help in identifying which replica best suits what you want. Hopefully it won't kick off a massive argument either

 

 

[bal541]

threads like this are why the internet rocks. Imagine if we didn't have the internet, he wouldn't have gotten any of that info.

[Shriven]

A2. *fruitcage* A1

 

The mag release issues that exist in the real A1 still exist in the airsoft one... nothing quite like ditching a mag on the move!

A2 is also aesthetically more pleasing.

[tweeeeeak]

There really are a lot more questions in that one simple post than you'd expect

 

First off, what's your budget? This will determine whether you can buy X brand, Y brand, or save up for Z brand At the moment there are 4 brands of L85 replica (going from cheapest to typically most expensive) - Army, G&G, ICS, and Star. The Army and G&G versions are both L85 A1 replicas, which was the original SA80, whereas the Star and ICS versions are both L85 A2 replicas... but there are still a few differences there as well!

 

as far as budget goes, im only looking at about $200 max on the gun, i still need a new mask. how much do the A2 replicas go for? i didnt check yet but it seems like they eat up the wallet

 

EDIT: oh jesus, i cant afford the star model i might get the custom army one. also, as far as scopes go, any scope in particular works right?

[col.parsons]

As you're in the US, I can't comment on prices as they'll be completely different to what we get charged

 

As for scopes... basically anything you can fit on it! However, it may be best to have a look at some pics of some L85's first, to get a feel for what sort of scope looks ok! The standard optics on the RS are either the SUSAT (replicas available, though none are fantastic), or more recently the NSN ACOG which is slowly replacing the SUSAT units.

[TheFull9]

Within that budget I'd expect you'd be priced out of all the versions except the Army to be honest, certainly based on the fact US pricing in $ often seems to be the same actual number as the UK price in GBP. Personally I'd have said the ICS as I feel the STAR is far over-priced a lot of the time and probably not going to be as reliable in the long term, purely based on my own experience compared to STAR owners where I skirmish and what I've read here in the past.

 

I personally own the STAR, and have handled / used the other versions and the only one I'm personally not that keen on is the ICS version, you can get RIS / RAS Adaptors for this weapon but weighing in at almost £400 for this is a little steep...

To be honest, unless one of the brands (maybe STAR?) fits a RS hand-guard pretty precisely it won't fit one of those custom RIS pieces, since those (and indeed the new issue one I believe) are mounted via the bolt that connects the front sling hook, same as the normal plastic hand-guard.

 

As for ACOGs you need to be a bit careful, a STAR ACOG for 20mm rails I have will not clamp down anywhere near tight enough to my ICS's dovetail rail. Plus the mount we have on the new sights is pretty unusual and I don't believe there's a replica around at the moment, this presuming there's only the 1 new type of 4x scope on issue and it's the one I've seen being used.

[Cpt.Lowe]

STAR L85A2 ... most recommended

[mikoyan99]

Within that budget I'd expect you'd be priced out of all the versions except the Army to be honest, certainly based on the fact US pricing in $ often seems to be the same actual number as the UK price in GBP. Personally I'd have said the ICS as I feel the STAR is far over-priced a lot of the time and probably not going to be as reliable in the long term, purely based on my own experience compared to STAR owners where I skirmish and what I've read here in the past.

 

 

To be honest, unless one of the brands (maybe STAR?) fits a RS hand-guard pretty precisely it won't fit one of those custom RIS pieces, since those (and indeed the new issue one I believe) are mounted via the bolt that connects the front sling hook, same as the normal plastic hand-guard.

 

As for ACOGs you need to be a bit careful, a STAR ACOG for 20mm rails I have will not clamp down anywhere near tight enough to my ICS's dovetail rail. Plus the mount we have on the new sights is pretty unusual and I don't believe there's a replica around at the moment, this presuming there's only the 1 new type of 4x scope on issue and it's the one I've seen being used.

 

Army one fits RS handguards without modifications far as i'm aware.

Finish and reciver dimensions far closer than the star - people seem very reluctant to believe this but I was handling an L98 and an army L85 at the same time today, and they're very close. I've handled the star too and I was not impressed; I think there's this myth going round it's a better replica and really it's not.

My monies going on an army

-Matt

[Counting Count]

Army one fits RS handguards without modifications far as i'm aware.

Finish and reciver dimensions far closer than the star - people seem very reluctant to believe this but I was handling an L98 and an army L85 at the same time today, and they're very close. I've handled the star too and I was not impressed; I think there's this myth going round it's a better replica and really it's not.

My monies going on an army

-Matt

 

I'll be quite honest, I've only seen the Gen 1 ICS / ARMY not the later production runs, one thing I am aware of is all the L85 models are incorrect in some way shape or form, this is in contrast to AK / Ar-15 etc. commercially available weapons where the manufacturers go and acquire one for sizing / dimensional control.

 

for the life of me I can't remember why I did not get the G&G A2 when I bought mine, though it may have been something quite strange, like the local site owner can easily work on a STAR L85...

 

 

 

[mikoyan99]

I'll be quite honest, I've only seen the Gen 1 ICS / ARMY not the later production runs, one thing I am aware of is all the L85 models are incorrect in some way shape or form, this is in contrast to AK / Ar-15 etc. commercially available weapons where the manufacturers go and acquire one for sizing / dimensional control.

 

for the life of me I can't remember why I did not get the G&G A2 when I bought mine, though it may have been something quite strange, like the local site owner can easily work on a STAR L85...

 

I'd say thats fair; there are inconsistencies on the army, IIRC wrong trigger, slightly off detail on the flash suppressor.

But what makes the difference with the star is (from memory, I will talk to the gunsmith who's been working with the army ones tommorow)

Surface Finish - the army one isn't exactly spot on, buts it's a lot closer than the star.

Dimensions - shape, size and steel thickness of the army receiver is a lot closer than the star

Stripping - army version strips using TMH pins like the original, unlike the star, which uses a lot of screws. A lot of retailers say it strips with the pins but it's not true.

SUSAT - IIRC the real susat goes stright on.

Handguards - again IIRC the real handguards go straight on.

I'll talk to the guy again to confim details but i'm pretty sure thats all correct.

Also, with AK's and armalites, IIRC only systema and real swords are close replicas of the originals. Even most of the full steel ak's you can get these days arn't spot on in terms of dimeneions.

-Matt

[celticboy]

ive got to say i have a star lsw converted by fire support and its a brilliant bit of kit,love the lsw,and having fired the real thing its a very good looking and feeling replica.even better with a susat on it.....save the dollars up and check out the lsw from firesupport, dont mess around with the baby sa80 get the big boy version

[mightyjebus]

I started off life using the RS L85 (minus mag release mod) then the A1, L86 and finally the A2. I currently have the Star AFV, L85A2 and LSW and I did own the Army L85.

 

I didn't like the plastic handguards on the Army one as it seemed plastic model like whereas the Star handguards are as sturdy as the RS ones. A few people have mentioned that the Star one is a pain to get into but realistically you won't be doing that very often so I don't really see it as a major problem.

The paint finish on the Army one is spray painted black whereas the finish on the star seems to be painted and baked on making it durable.

 

My star ones take pretty much any AEG M4 type mag and fire fine and I agree about getting the largest custom battery and leaving it inside the handguard to make life easier. One thing I have noticed about the star L85 is that it's a very accurate AEG once bedded in.

 

I'm hoping someone makes the DD RIS rail for the SA80 soon.

[Jay7]

I love my Star L85,its pretty much indestructable but does take a while to "bed in" .Only real problem I've had is a BB getting into the gearbox and jamming the fire selector(not an uncommon fault and easy enough to fix)

I know of two people with G&G A1's and neither of them are working or have ever worked properly from purchase.but then again thats the case with anything G&G.

[Mikeiw]

I've got the G&G A2, which I've had from new. It worked great OOB, until about 30,000 rounds, when it tore the back off the piston. I replaced it & in quick succession it did it again, so I got the 10mm spacer & lengthened bolt for the piston, coupled it with a stock piston & sector gear, and put it back together. In the process, it's lost the pre-cocking, but with the 4,600mah 8.4v battery I run it on, trigger response is not a problem. It's since done about 40,000 more rounds without mechanical issue (touch wood), and I would stress that ALL of these rounds have been with the blow-back engaged.

 

My pistol grip came loose fairly early on, but that was just screwed back on tightly & hasn't been an issue since. Also, my mag catch retention pin came out & dropped the bits into the snow earlier this year. Fortunately, I felt it go & retrieved the lot. This can happen on either the A1 or A2, as I think the tolerences on the pin aren't as tight as they should be.

 

Rangewise it rocks and I sometimes get chronoed because of complaints that it's "hot", with just an H-hop nub added, and it still pushes out around 350fps after all this time, settling down after one skirmish from about 370fps. Because of the blow-back slowing things down, it has a nice lazy thudding report, and when you come back to it after a while away, you feel quite a bit of vibration through the stock, which is nice

 

I'd recommend one, but it needs the conversion doing. I know 3 people with the same gun, and they all settled down after being converted & have given good service since... with the exception of the idiot that threw his away in a tantrum!

 

 

[Counting Count]

I'm seeing more and more L85's turn up at my regular ground, and we've seen a resurgence in the purchase of STAR L85's above both the ARMY / G&G and the ICS (there's currently only one ICS here regularly) however at the moment the only reliable weapons are the ICS, a Second Gen G&G and the STAR (including a couple of first gen ones).

 

One person has even modified a spare ARMY R85 into theL22A1 (I think he'll attempt to mod it into an A2 version at some point) the reliability will improve in all replicas and looking at the costs this will limit who gets what replica either on want one now or what can be saved for.

[celticboy]

the star definatly needs bedding in...a few mags through though and it soon becomes a little beast.mine has jammed in the past a dodgy bb ate the hop up rubber,but that was a bb problem rather than the rifle

[Panoptes]

It's been reported that my Star A2 'hurts like a *badgeress*'. Which makes me more inclined to use it.

 

 

[celticboy]

its got quite a mean rate of fire too!