Silent_Assassin Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I was been given advice on a 10 month old parts list in my other thread as people wern't reading all the posts before they replied so I've started this new thread. I'm restarting my High ROF 416 project and I've re-written my parts list as I now have the cash to spend... Systema 7mm gearbox Modify smooth speed gear set Systema Magnum motor (ordered) Guarder bearing spring guide (already have) TM piston (swiss cheesed) (already have) Guarder cylinder (already have) Guarder cylinder head (already have) The spring is either a TM or a M90/M100 as I want around 320fps. As for the electrics I'm going with - 14AWG Silicone wire, MOSFET & 7.4v 1300mah 25C LiPo with Dean connectors. The only bits I still need to buy are the GB and gears, the motor was ordered from HK this morning. What do you think? Expected ROF is in the C.1800's. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
gzus11 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 pop the battery up a cell for 11.1v and even more increase rof. current gives a motor power, voltage gives the speed, so 7v may limit what you are trying to achieve. Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 That will easily see 30rps, i would say nearer 35 tbh. Not sure why you'd want it that high, but thats just me As long as the AoE is set-up correctly then there is no reason why this shouldn't work at that rate of fire for a few thousand rounds without and issue. As regards the magnum, make sure you have fiber washers on so it doesn't short. Also, the brushes wear down quite quickly and they need rebuilt and 'serviced' after so many thousand rounds. There is an excellent thread over at Airsoft Mechanics about them. They're certainly a better choice than a turbo though Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I was thinking about getting a 11.1v but I've only just taken the LiPo plunge so I'm going to stick with my 7.4v which I've been using for a few weeks now. As for the ROF, I'm aiming for a 30rps @ 328fps. However if the ROF is higher then I can always install a slightly stronger (C.340fps) spring to bring it down. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 A stronger spring might not actually bring it down, but increase it... I dunno exactly how it works (I do English not Physics!) but i think it essentially means the stronger spring makes the piston return faster, or something. Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Generally, lighter spring = higher ROF as the stress on the gear train (piston, gears, motor, battery) is lower, therefore it will run faster, then if it was under increased load. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
The General Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Curious, the Systema Magnum is a torque motor, why not go for a high speed motor like the Systema Turbo or G&P M120? Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Curious, the Systema Magnum is a torque motor, why not go for a high speed motor like the Systema Turbo or G&P M120? Flexablility, with the magnum I still get a higher ROF but I have the option of adding a longer barrel and stronger spring if I ever wanted a DMR. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Have a look Airsoft Mechanics forums there are lots of high speed setups there. As for what spring to run, a lot of them have gone in the other direction that we expect them to go in, high speed gears + light spring + high speed motor out and in goes a m170 spring with a high torque motor and high torque and in fact custom ratio gears from the likes of RiotSC from the very same forums.... seems odd doesn't it. Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 The only problem I can see with regards to the spring is that if its too light then it wont pust the piston back fully before the selector gear comes back around. In which case I might stick with an M120. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Quagmired Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 The reason to go with a stronger spring in a high ROF is you dont want to get premature engagement. If you are running 11.1 lipo, you have to make sure the spring is strong enough to get the piston forward fast enough to beat the gears to their next cycle. I run aroung 380 FPS with my lipo. Link to post Share on other sites
Corvid Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 A stronger spring might not actually bring it down, but increase it... I dunno exactly how it works (I do English not Physics!) but i think it essentially means the stronger spring makes the piston return faster, or something. A stronger spring does indeed increase the speed at which the piston will go forward... But only the return speed that changes mate. It's the same reason why Swiss cheeseing a piston doesn't increase your RoF unless the piston happens to be obscenely heavy. Once the piston is released it matters not how fast it goes forward: even if it were to go forward instantaneously, the sector will still take the same amount of time to come around and engage it again. Obviously the piston return speed IS a fairly critical factor in a high RoF AEG, as a low return speed could cause premature engagement. Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Just bought the Systema GB and I'm going to order the gear set from Airsoft World tomorrow. I should get the motor and GB within the next week as they're coming from HK. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
wolf66 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You would be better going with an 11.1v lipoly. The 7.4 doesn't give no where near the same rof. I ran torque up gears with a systema magnum and 11.1v and was shooting about 27-29rps. You will be much more pleased with the 11.1v and I suggest the Zippy and rhino batteries. Link to post Share on other sites
SpoonMan Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Something to note, Infected's Mosfets (if that is what you have) do not have a good track record with the magnums. For this application I would recommend using the G&P m120 which gives you the same flexibility, maybe a little higher ROF. Also a good set of bearings is recommended. I'm doing a similar build with a CA36 and bearings seem to have made a big difference. Kanzig Ceramics are really good. Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Thanks for the input guys, however I've already bought the Magnum motor which is on its way from HK as we speak. As for the bearings, I'm getting the Modify smooth gear set which comes with its own 7mm bearings buit in. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
maxxxmonster Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 ive had problems with both gearsets. sorry i didnt see this thread. went thru 3 element gearsets and 1 guarder set and 1 modify set. they all broke in the same place. the spur gear is 2 pieces held togethor by friction. i think maybe the reason why mine broke was becase i put too much torque in there and it just over a short amount of time just killed the friction. Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I think maybe the reason why mine broke was becase i put too much torque in there and it just over a short amount of time just killed the friction. What was your setup? Oh and I've just ordered the Modify smooth speed gear set + bushing tool. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Azulsky Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Lube the ###### out of the modify bearings, they come dryyyyyyyy Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 What lube shall I use? I think it comes with a tube. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I've decided to use 16awg silicone wire as 14awg is to thick and may foul the pinion gear. I'll use 14awg outside the gearbox but I'm toying with the idea of wiring the Mosfet inside my PEQ box next to the battery as its a bit of a tight fit under the 416's RIS. The only downside is that I will have to fit an extra pair of deans connectors but I'm not too fussed about that. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Hammerfall Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 The HK416 is WAY too popular for high fps set-ups Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 The HK416 is WAY too popular for high fps set-ups TBH I'm planning on buying a 2nd JG416 and building a DMR by getting a longer barrel and short solid stock. But thats not going to be for about 6 months now. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Got the motor delivered today, but I'm a little confused. I bought both the motor and gearbox from the same Ebay seller about 3 days apart and when I emailed him asking for the tracking number I also enquired whether he would be shipping both the items together, which his respone was simply "Yes, 2 items". He's prob just mis-read my message and I'm expecting the gearbox to be here soon. Other than that, I just need the Modify gears which will be here today and then I'm all set to build my new high ROF gearbox. Josh Link to post Share on other sites
Silent_Assassin Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Just finished fitting the 14AGW silicone wiring, MOSFET and Systema Magnum into my stock JG gearbox, hooked it upto a 7.4v 1300mah LiPo and Fudge me its fast. I can't wait for my systema gb to arrive so I can fit my modify speed gears Josh Link to post Share on other sites
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