102 replies to this topic

[Airsoft Innovations]

Here's a promo video I was running at the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPQ4dj77v4...re=channel_page

It features high speed video footage of the current Tornado Airsoft Grenade, but at the last half, there's footage of three new products I've been working on:

Impact Grenade:

-Trigger sensitivity is quite good. Grenade goes off reliably from a 2" drop onto concrete or 3' on grass. It was surprising how easy it was to get the trigger working on concrete and quite frustrating getting it sensitive enough to go off on grass.
-Trigger is not overly sensitive. You can shake a grenade as hard as you like. As long as you don't clip yourself in the forehead, changing directions when shaking a grenade takes place in about 8" when you hold it in your hand and jostle it. It's nothing like a 2" bounce off of the turf or a fractional inch collision with concrete. Collisions result in much higher G forces than shaking
-Before bringing ANY grenade back into the safe area, remove the valve cover to disarm the grenade even if you think it has gone off. I can't stress this issue enough. I find a lot of players bringing their expended grenades back into the safe area armed. We need to treat all found grenades like unexploded ordnance instead of picking them up like a souvenir and bringing them back to base.


Bounding Mine:

-Accessory attaching to standard Tornado Airsoft Grenade to turn it into a tripwire bounding mine
-Tripwire pull has a wide tolerance to pull direction. It does not have to be perfectly lined up to trigger the mine making setup easier.
-Grenade launched up to a height of roughly 5' in current build (last one went higher) which is actually a fairly light lob even if it gets you in the junk. If you're standing, the grenade loses roughly half it's kinetic energy by the time it sacks you so it's that the energy of a 2.5' upwards lob at that elevated point of impact. Worse case scenario is to crawl prone over a buried mine and get it in the windpipe, but then I've also run full tilt into tree branches once.
-Launch is spring powered. Grenade initiates at 2' height from ground. The launch mechanism can also be deactivated so the grenade initiates on the ground which is also kind of interesting. I've been goofing around with an attachment to the bounding mine to add a shootable trigger plate so you can even set it up as an exploding target for use in a faux meth lab scenario or a fight in an industrial setting with explodable targets (don't hit the BBQ tank!)
-Expected cost is to be pretty reasonable I think. I'm aiming for around $40 for the kit but nothing is settled until the design is finished and the mould is made.


Launchable Grenade:

-40mm launcher compatible projectile
-Very light launch weight at approximately 60 grams for the current build. I am trying VERY hard to keep this weight down. Considering the current hand grenade is 260g I'm pretty happy that I got the weight down of the launchable as low as this.

That's about all I can say at this point. These projects are still early work in progress projects for me. Of the lot of them, the impact grenade is closest to launch because it uses a lot of injection moulded parts common to the standard timer grenade. The other two projects require new injection moulds that will take me some time to finance. I also have to be more careful with their design because changes are much more difficult when I have to do mould rework.

[Pedro30]

the bounding one is quite interesting

[TwinTurboCH]

That '40mm launcher grenade' looks awesome, then i could make proper use of all my launchers

[Kenworth W900]

All those ideas are absolutely awesome, please make sure they are all put into full production soon

I have to say that the 'shootable grenade' idea sounds brilliant too. If it was an attachment to the exsisting grenades then they would become truly all purpose.

Edited by Kenworth W900, 09 August 2009 - 09:10 PM.

[IronWolf]

All those ideas are absolutely awesome

Indeed,

TBH, I've always regarded non-pyro airsoft grenades as a bit of a novelty. That said however, these new products have certainly made me reconsider

[apmaman]

Incredible stuff, the bouncing betty was pretty sweet, even if would be a sack crusher! lol

My comments are that the 40mm launching one could be very effective in CQB.
Firing it through a door way or window onto a wall for it to bounce off and clear the room, so as the grenade falls or ricochets slightly off the wall it would fire out the BB's getting the bad guys even if they are behind cover..


I'd like to ask if you can use these with co2 instead of green gas, by using a portable charger, ala madbull or similar because I've seen these being used and while they are great I just wish the BB's had a bit more oomph in the cooler climates of the UK.

Edit:
Me fail English

Edited by apmaman, 09 August 2009 - 09:54 PM.

[Mike_West]

60 BBs on that launchable 'nade is not enough for you? Standard moscarts pack roughly that much... And yeah, using it in an EGLM/M79/revolver launcher is tempting. ;] Especially when you go for saturation bombing with the revolver. ;]

[apmaman]

I duno if it would fit in the revolver, that needs the small sized moscarts to allow the barrel to spin. This one looks like it could be a long type moscart like the Madbull King Grenade which don't fit in the revolver unfortunately

I'd say 60 is a good amount, of course the more the better but you can't have everything!

[Airsoft Innovations]

Bah, I want a real effect. I'm going for 100 pellets in the 40mm 'nade. I can almost do it in the current build. Something went funny in the pneumatics but I figured out the problem. It should be fixed in the next revision. Unfortunately I'm having real problems getting the projectile to work in the revolver style launcher. Too much leakage between the carousel and the breech. I'm losing a lot of gas there because there is no seal and a pretty big gap. I may be able to fix it with a modified launcher, but I need help cooperation from a manufacturer of six shooters because I don't have the capability to make them.

As to using CO2, I have no plans to use it. I have problems with regulated CO2 because it doesn't expand to a very high volume. You get a nice high initial pressure, but it decays rapidly whereas with liquid propane, you get a long persistent push which drives more pellets. My other issue is that pressure vessel design for dealing with liquid CO2 is a very dangerous area of design. There is a lot of engineering in CO2 pressure vessels to keep them from becoming pipe bombs. I can't put that kind of work into a launchable projectile and keep it light. Each impact may compromise it's strength and that's too dangerous for liquid CO2. The Madbull adaptor can also move liquid CO2 (take off the top portion and use it without the regulator) so I have no plans to design around it. My devices will have to include pressure relief features to prevent the use of very high pressure gas for this reason. Sorry, I don't actually make bombs.

[Airsoft Innovations]

Oh yeah, I'm designing around a stubby driver cartridge of my own design which fits into the tail end of the grenade. Total projectile and driver length will be comparable to a 165bb moscart so you can use the same 40mm pouches and you only have to load one unit to fire a grenade. I'm also trying to make it launchable with other shower moscarts, but you'll lose some barrel length and you'll have to load two things per shot, but you'll still get some use out of shower moscarts.

[TwinTurboCH]

Now I'm thinking that ACM 5KU Revolver launcher on EBB might make a lot of sens e with those

[Jin15]

Wow! That 40mm launchable grenade is amazing! That's exactly the kind of realism airsoft grenade launchers have always been missing. Something to finally turn the airsoft grenade launchers into proper grenade launchers rather than just glorified shotguns!
You sir are a genius and I'll be first in line to buy one (or two or three depending on price) when they are finished and released

Any ideas what the range might be for the final product when launched from a standard long or short M203 using green gas?

[azsworst]

The bouncing betty looks nice. Would definately consider getting a few as long as they are loud enough when going off.

[shibisueka]

I need that 40mm grenade! Brilliant work, but curse you for making me spend more money!

[l85 guy]

dang, just when i thought I might go for a set of multicam gear, I find this.
I know I will be getting at least 2 of the impact and launcher ones, I simply can't deny me them.

[M0ldyM!LK]

Do you yet have an idea of the potential price range for each of these products, especially the 40mm grenade?

Edited by M0ldyM!LK, 09 August 2009 - 11:54 PM.

[jond36]

Put the rest down. Just focus on the 40MM. No offense. It is gonna sell 10x as much. Great product becuase it is unique.

[nieb15]

Awesome. Just awesome. Please tell me that you will still be able to use the distraction kit with the impact grenade. Same for the 40mm. I would love to launch one of those and have a loud bang on impact.

That bouncing grenade is awesome, WWII buffs will love finally having a base for bouncing betty's.

[Airsoft Innovations]

I can't really make any price projections on the launchable grenade. It's a relatively new work in progress for me. I've been puttering around with the idea for about a year, but prototyping hasn't been going that long. Ideally I'd like to hit a $80 price point for projectile and driver, but before I go a lot further I haven't got any confidence I can do it because there are significant hurdles to overcome. The current build is not very user friendly and I have some safety related concerns still. I also need to figure out what the maximum muzzle velocity I'm willing to hit with this product. I will have to limit the max muzzle velocity with some design features which will disappoint some, but I've seen too meatheads on the field to feel comfortable releasing something that can be easily made very dangerous. Basically I am unwilling to make a product which is dangerous at point blank range (say a hit in the windpipe).

I am also looking into an indoor deployment kit for the bounding mine. The current build is meant to be staked into the ground, but that's not practical indoors. I think I will unfortunately have to settle on an adhesive tape base to hold the thing down against the tripwire pull.

[nieb15]

I am also looking into an indoor deployment kit for the bounding mine. The current build is meant to be staked into the ground, but that's not practical indoors. I think I will unfortunately have to settle on an adhesive tape base to hold the thing down against the tripwire pull.

Hmm, what about a sort of tri-pod. Those remote airsoft claymores are able to stand without being staked into the ground. I have this camera tripod called a Gorrilla-Pod. It is only about 15cm tall. I can see how you could convert a short tri-pod like that into a base for the grenade. I could draw up some quick sketches if you want.