98 replies to this topic

[Murph]

Anyone planning on getting a Western Arms Smith & Wesson M4013 TSW?  I saw that WGC has them.  I'm planning on getting one, but I was hoping to find out if I'm dropping $200 for something that I'll only be able to have sit on my desk, and never take outside.

Review, thoughts, anyone?

[Vektor]

I´m happy to see that WA finally made something else than 1911 varients (and yet a S&W!), but since it´s just a fancy new variation of their earlier "Shorty" .40 GBB, I think I´ll skip this one. Shorty´s a great gun, but as you mentioned, such big bucks for a gun I practically already own makes me think again too. Those magazines will come in handy (if they really fit in older Shorties), if they´re just available long enough...

If they just got a full sized S&W combat auto (and not a 1911 derivative, Sigma or a SW99) out, I´d willingly spend enormous sums of money for that. Plus for the possible upgrade parts.

You might be interested about this too:
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...showtopic=15331

[twin_cam]

I'm taking delivery of two of them next week. One is a customer's gun and the other will be for my own airsoft gratification.  From what I gathered on the WA site, it's supposed to be using the GCS system that WA released on all the current SCW's.  So, gents, this means that out of the box, it will have better fps and gas efficiency than the original shorty forty  which I still want to purchase.  1911's still rule the roost in my inventory.  Slides and other parts should be available in the coming weeks, but I don't know if the aftermarket will give it as much support.  I hope they do, as this model, derived from the original 3913 is really a dandy gun.

[seth]

Even though I loathe the ol WA 600 dollar full metal Kimber, this compact Smith and Wesson has caught my eye.  Looks great, and I love Smith and Wesson's real-steel offerings (though the WA SW1911 was a joke and example of poor design, which was a great disappointment).

If anyone has anymore info, would appreciate it.  I am 50/50 on ordering this gun next week and laying down the 200 bucks to get it shipped over.  Has anyone got theirs yet and would like to put out some accuracy and FPS reports?

Also, I use green gas in all my guns....and I don't see any metal slides or even hammer/recoil spring upgrades out yet....ack.

[snowman]

I'll let you know some views on it - I have 11 new WAs awaiting review, including this one.

As a matter of interest, as I don't have one of these, was the issue with the S&W 1911 just the magazine buffer?

Cheers.

[seth]

I'll let you know some views on it - I have 11 new WAs awaiting review, including this one.

As a matter of interest, as I don't have one of these, was the issue with the S&W 1911 just the magazine buffer?

Cheers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The mag buffer required cutting, as it was too thick to take a standard gas can.  The bumper wouldn't allow the gas to enter the fill valve.  This was present on both the mag that came with the gun AND the spare magazine, which in my opinion was a poor design.

After taking off the bumpers and trying to fill them up close, the valve was screwed in too tight and gas spilled everywhere as I applied more force to get the gas out (on both mags)  This problem was non present in the WA SV 6 inch I used, all of my Tanaka revolvers, all my Marui autos, and my old KSC Mac11.

Blowback on green gas, even when I did manage to get a full mag's worth of gas in, was harder than any KWA Glock, but still was noticably less "vicious" as my beloved TM HiCapa w/ green gas and tighter piston O-ring.  That's when I started to lose faith.

Accuracy was poor at ranges longer than 30-40 feet, even after 500 rounds were fired to "break in" the gun.  There was too much shot inconsistency when comparing it to my Maruis (both WA and Marui HiCap were left at stock hop setting at the time).

Many scratches and markings I couldn't polish off were on the "metal" outer barrel, whether or not this was WGC's fault or WA, I am unsure.  Hammer was metal, but painted an ugly gray, with brush strokes NOTICABLE.  Comparing to my HiCapa, the hammer was polished chrome.

Even after this huge disappointment, I now am going on a limb and giving WA another try at creating a nicely crafted pistol with (at least decent) performance to justify the higher cost.  I'm not expecting it to be the Marui HiCapa or P226, but I don't want all the problems of the SW1911 I had to be present on this toy.  (Ala, better accuracy, mag bumpers which aren't ridiculously thick, and a better attempt at painting the hammer).  

Again, trying to keep an open mind, as I sold all my Maruis (to get into Tanaka revolvers), and need an auto-loader that I can rely on in a game.

[twin_cam]

Accuracy was poor at ranges longer than 30-40 feet, even after 500 rounds were fired to "break in" the gun.  There was too much shot inconsistency when comparing it to my Maruis (both WA and Marui HiCap were left at stock hop setting at the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm fairly certain you got yourself a bit of a bum lemon of a gun.  I didn't have any of those problems with the SW 1911 I built and repeatable hits at 40m were the norm.

As for the 4013, I've already received and tuned mine and couldn't be happier.  The recoil feels like a .22 and it is quite loud on the Hulk's favorite colored gas.
The recoil spring is a tad on the soft side, which is odd especially when you look at the elaborate triple spring arrangement WA chose to go with which probalby was meant to emulate the dual spring setup of the real McKoy.

I really like mine.  The only problem is earning more money for spare mags.  Right now the gun has acquitted itself well as my "holdout" piece and rides in the hidden compartment of my concealment vest.  I only load it to 14 rounds and under a full reset, pull the trigger as fast as you can, drill it empties quite rapidly.

I used it to break contact against 3 aeg equipped opponents and got the hell out of dodge.

[Murph]

*BUMP*   Back on topic?  Anyone buy a S&W M4013?

[seth]

Yes, if you read Twin Cam's post, he already bought one and is using it.

I sent in my quote to WGC for the gun and a spare magazine- looks like it'll be a whole paycheck blown again, so I hope its not a disappointment.

[snowman]

Seth,

If you've not sent the cash yet, stay your hand.

Lovely finish, but the power seems very low at around 210 fps with 134a - Not 100% sure of my chrono figures, so I will retest (light was a bit low), but if power's important, you MIGHT want to look elsewhere...

Anyone else with one chronoed it yet?

Cheers.

[snake guy]

I'm fairly certain you got yourself a bit of a bum lemon of a gun.  I didn't have any of those problems with the SW 1911 I built and repeatable hits at 40m were the norm.

As for the 4013, I've already received and tuned mine and couldn't be happier.  The recoil feels like a .22 and it is quite loud on the Hulk's favorite colored gas.
The recoil spring is a tad on the soft side, which is odd especially when you look at the elaborate triple spring arrangement WA chose to go with which probalby was meant to emulate the dual spring setup of the real McKoy.

I really like mine.  The only problem is earning more money for spare mags.  Right now the gun has acquitted itself well as my "holdout" piece and rides in the hidden compartment of my concealment vest.  I only load it to 14 rounds and under a full reset, pull the trigger as fast as you can, drill it empties quite rapidly.

I used it to break contact against 3 aeg equipped opponents and got the hell out of dodge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Twin Cam:

Mind telling us where you ordered the 4013 from, how much you paid, and whether it came with the trademarks intact? I am a recent convert to Airsoft (with a G19) and this one is really interesting to me.

[seth]

Seth,

If you've not sent the cash yet, stay your hand.

Lovely finish, but the power seems very low at around 210 fps with 134a - Not 100% sure of my chrono figures, so I will retest (light was a bit low), but if power's important, you MIGHT want to look elsewhere...

Anyone else with one chronoed it yet?

Cheers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, I haven't sent my money yet, as I get my Paycheck on Friday...(tomorrow!)

210 FPS with 134A is pathetic, that's 10 FPS weaker than the Marui AEP 18C, and around the same FPS as my KWC M4506 springer pistol!

Twin Cam mentioned that on green gas it'll blast through both sides of a Coke can...doesn't that equate to around 330-50 FPS?  

Snowman, would appreciate some chrono figures on a "warm" day (if that exists in the UK) and on green gas/HFC22.  Hawaii is typically 70F at its coldest, and now that its summer, hangs around mostly 80-90F.  However, I would think that WA's SCW-2 system would prevent cooldown effects due to temperatures....

Anyway, if anyone has some experience with this, post 'er up.

[snake guy]

Nope, I haven't sent my money yet, as I get my Paycheck on Friday...(tomorrow!)

210 FPS with 134A is pathetic, that's 10 FPS weaker than the Marui AEP 18C, and around the same FPS as my KWC M4506 springer pistol!

Twin Cam mentioned that on green gas it'll blast through both sides of a Coke can...doesn't that equate to around 330-50 FPS? 

Snowman, would appreciate some chrono figures on a "warm" day (if that exists in the UK) and on green gas/HFC22.  Hawaii is typically 70F at its coldest, and now that its summer, hangs around mostly 80-90F.  However, I would think that WA's SCW-2 system would prevent cooldown effects due to temperatures....

Anyway, if anyone has some experience with this, post 'er up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm far from an expert on this, but this is from the Tokyo Model website and it seems to verify Snowman's figures:

Description : WA Smith & Wesson M4013 TSW
Length: 175mm
Weight: 793g
Capacity: 22rd+1rd
208fps(134a GAS)
Factory: Western Arms
Specification:
System: Gas Blow Back

[seth]

The Marui Glock 26 has a shorter barrel and 40 more FPS... is all of the gas going to the blowback on the WA, or what?

Anyway, Snowman said he'd rechrono soon, I'd like to see his results on green gas too.

[Catchv22]

The Western Arms pistols have a unique blowback system which, from what I understand, puts more gas into blowback. The blowback unit will only project gas into the barrel until the bb is pushed off a small plunger. After that, all gas is pushed into the blowback of the slide.

Edit:
Also, how does the Glock 26 do on 134a. Comparing a WA GBB and another brand on two different gasses wouldn't be a fair comparison. WA GBBs often do a low 230-250 on 134a, but on Green Gas, my M1911 pushes 350 fps, higher than the skirmishable TM/KJW M9s that a lot of people like. Unfortunately, I couldn't compare it to a KSC/KWA semi-auto Glock only as the Glock 19 seems to be the mainstay of the UK airsofting scene.

Edited by Catchv22, 03 June 2005 - 03:43 AM.

[twin_cam]

Twin Cam:

Mind telling us where you ordered the 4013 from, how much you paid, and whether it came with the trademarks intact? I am a recent convert to Airsoft (with a G19) and this one is really interesting to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trades are intact.  the gun was ordered from wgc and I indicated I just wanted putty on the trademarks.  I paid whatever WGC is asking for it now.  It was part of an order of two.  It's sibling now lives on the East coast.

Comparing glocks and smiths is like apples and oranges.  Tou have to understand that the s&w has a much smaller gas reservoir than the glock and doesn't achieve the same kind of pressure as the larger capacity tank.  I tuned my 4013 already and i run it on green gas.  The gun happily digests it with no complaints and it destroys coke can sidewalls with ease.  It's the bees knees.  I don't have much use for 134a anymore these days and build all my guns for green gas use.

Comparing this gun to a similarly equipped g26c, that is to say, in an identical state of tune, the 4013 comes out the winner in every respect.  Parts will be out soon, and extended firing pins are easy enough to fabricate with some tool steel and a mini lathe.  It gets hits at 30m now, so who am I to complain?  And the reaction is always, "What the hell was that?"

[hhsohn]

For reference, my original Shorty .40 in silver chronoed 235fps on a coolish day.

[seth]

For reference, my original Shorty .40 in silver chronoed 235fps on a coolish day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you.  however, that was the "Magna" system, and the new TSW is SCW? or SCW-2?  Would it therefore have less FPS (as people always say the shibuyas have increased recoil, so I'm thinking, less gas to the BB)- someone can add more to this hopefully...

I wasn't referring to the KSC Glock 26 (which I have no information about).  I am referring to the Marui Glock 26, which hits about 240 FPS on 134A gas on a normal Hawaiian day (75-80F).  It seems that the WA M4013 hits much weaker on "the gas it was designed for" (134A) than the Marui compact, and I've observed that WAs of similar barrel lengths (and gas volumes) put out higher FPS than their Marui counterparts.  That's why I'm confused that the tiny Marui '26 would get significantly higher FPS readings than this compact WA, which, I thought, should at least be the same.

Twin Cam, do you think you could explain in detail what EXACTLY you did to your M4013 to "tune" it so it kicks out more power on green gas?  I'd really like to know how you tinkered with yours so I'll know what to do with mine, as 208 FPS sounds too low to me, and part of the higher price I pay for the WA should be for superior performance AND the "superior" finish to the competition.

A gun that's all show and no go isn't worth my next paycheck.  

[snowman]

The TSW is still magna, I believe.

My experience of fps with SCW vs Magna is the latest system produces a fraction more fps. I'm quite sceptical, personally, about the claims of greater kick.

Testing similar Magna and SCW system guns back to back, there's little perceivable difference in kick, IMO.

Cheers

[seth]

To clarify, the M4013 TSW is SCW, though I'm not sure if its the newer "SCW-2" system the SW1911 and the SV Experts have.

*Begs Snowman for chrono results on HFC22*