TLD GR20 Distraction Device? The next Dynatec?

[greg]

Got it today, love it to bits, worth every penny & then some.

 

Makes a dynotec look like a dinosaur.

 

Done a mini review & posted it appropriately in the Tactical kit review section.

 

Get one (or 4), it's fab.

 

 

Greg.

[Eugene_Stoner]

sorry i didnt see this thread, out team bought 5 i believe at CHd, we loved them, had no rpoblems losing the spoons etc. Be careful with the thread the gold striker screws onto, as it CAN be cross threaded, once youve screwed it on a few times it should be fine ( i put a touch of grease on mine)

 

I also store it with a used gold cap on to protect the threads - i recommend doing this or taking it apart all together for storage.

 

Bangs supplied are great, looks cool and works out cheaper for us in the long run (it may not for you)

[greg]

Be careful with the thread the gold striker screws onto, as it CAN be cross threaded, once youve screwed it on a few times it should be fine ( i put a touch of grease on mine)

Good tip.

 

If, 'dry-fired', the hammer hits the thread & can cause damage. So yes, I agree, always keep the thread covered with an old cap to prevent damage.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

This morning, I drilled a 12.5mm diameter hole, 11mm deep into the but plate of my GR20. I then fixed one of those 'safety systems' L.E.D. tacks in the hole.

 

Little chance of loosing it now, 'cos it flashes red.

 

 

Greg.

[TheEgo]

£30/20 bangs, going down to £20/20 for repeat orders, if you return the percusion cap holders

 

 

works out cheaper for us in the long run

 

Where the hell are you lot getting your pyro from where those prices make a cost saving.

 

I'll hold off judgement till I get to see these in action. But as a direct replacment to a BFG, cost wise they don't make sense, with 9mm.

They'll have to offer something much more over a BFG in the performance department to get me to switch out.

[aliensexgangchildren]

it so sucks americans don't get to use these or pyro in general at games

[greg]

Where the hell are you lot getting your pyro from where those prices make a cost saving.

 

I'll hold off judgement till I get to see these in action. But as a direct replacment to a BFG, cost wise they don't make sense, with 9mm.

They'll have to offer something much more over a BFG in the performance department to get me to switch out.

You have invested in a great product. However, for anyone who has not yet shelled out, it is a good alternative. I never got a bfg because of the bulk & unauthentic look. I'm happy to pay the extra running costs for a, more realistic, flexible & reusable, pyro delivery system.

 

The unit is slightly cheaper than a Dyno: £60 vs £70(ish). Current charge options are way cheaper than disposables: £1 vs £2-£4. Not as cheap as you can get 9mm blanks: £1 vs £0.30(ish). However, there is a looming law change, that may make 'blanks' very hard to get hold of. Roomers are that you will need a section 5 FAC to purchase 9mm blanks by this time next year. If this happens, Dynotech will probably have to offer a Dyno-specific charge, which will inevitably cost more than a 9mm blank.

 

Unlike the BFG, the GR20, is very realistic, being a close copy of a US M84. It weighs half a pound & fits into most pistol mag pouches. There will soon be a variety of charges; bangs, multi bangs & smokes, with the possibility of flash bangs & other effects. All of which are compact & can be re loaded, without tools, in the field.

 

If you have already forked out for a BFG, you will obviously find it hard to see the GR20 as a better product. It is a great alternative to disposable, throwaway pyro, having a more realistic feel, (pull pin/flying spoon, metal construction etc.) & the flexibility to deliver a verity of payloads.

 

I would not for one minute suggest that you dump your trusty BFG in favor of the GR20. It may be that BFG owners will get one (or more), to complement their beloved bfg. Allowing them to deploy the smokes & multi bangs that the Dyno can't.

 

 

Greg.

[Eugene_Stoner]

wel said greg, i have spent so much on disposable pyro only to be dissapointed most times, works out cheaper when compared to disposables is what i meant. I dont know how much BFGs cost and i think theyre kind of bulky tbh.

[TheEgo]

People who buy the likes of the TLD GR20 or BFG's tend to be of the mindset that it's more economical over a duration.

So why not compare it like for like. And not to pyro prices that you'd pay if buying singularly. I pay approximately £1 for a standard mk5.

 

I can see it being a good product, I just think the charge price needs to come down for me to consider it.

I currently have 6 BFG's, and will often have disposable pyro with me for when they aren't ideal, so I can definately see the benefit of different charges.

 

Any photo's yet of it against BFG's for a size comparrison, seen the stock photo's but not many user photo's up yet...

[hotelkilo]

.

 

The unit is slightly cheaper than a Dyno: £60 vs £70(ish). Current charge options are way cheaper than disposables: £1 vs £2-£4. Not as cheap as you can get 9mm blanks: £1 vs £0.30(ish).

 

However, there is a looming law change, that may make 'blanks' very hard to get hold of. Roomers are that you will need a section 5 FAC to purchase 9mm blanks by this time next year. If this happens, Dynotech will probably have to offer a Dyno-specific charge, which will inevitably cost more than a 9mm blank.

 

 

you've hit the nail on the head right there. the 're-usable' cost might be cheaper than a throw away pyro, however compared to a bfg this new device is still AT LEAST 3x more 'per bang' ( £.30 vs £1) and that £1 per bang figure is not what it costs to start, thats the cost per bang after you start sending your initiators back for reloading (if i understand the system correcty)

 

so lets compare the 1st 50 uses - currently a dynatex BFG initial cost £80 + 50 blanks @£15 = £95

 

for the GR20 initial cost is £60, then £30 for the 1st 20 bangs, then £1 per bang thereafter (if you send back your spent caps) so total cost for unit and 1st 50 bangs is £120

 

after the 1st 50 bangs, the dynatex BFG for the next 50 bangs will cost £15, the GR20 will cost at least £50 for another 50 uses.

 

so total cost for 100 uses. Dynatex BFG = £110.... GR20 = £170

 

after 150 uses BFG = £125 .. GR20 = £220

 

wow so £220 gets us 150 bangs using the GR20, but look the same £220 would get us over 400 bangs using the dynatex BFG - eek !!

 

hardly scientific i know, but as a guidline for expected costs that shows me that the GR20 is going to cost a lot more in the long run than bfg's.

 

and as for your scaremongering about possible changes in uk law, firstly while there has been talk of putting the purchase of blanks within the firearms laws, you are the only person that has mentioned that blank rounds might require a SECTION 5 certificate - LOL WTF are you on? section 5 ? so not an explosives handling certificate, not a shotgun certificate, not a section1 firearm but straight to a SECTION 5 (prohibeted weapon). imo thats not very likely

 

afaik the proposed changes in the regs would mean a shotgun certificate would be required to buy any blank ammunition. well i was discussing the possible law changes at a recent skirmish with 5 others. out of the 6 of us there at that moment, 2 of the group had current shotgun certs and said they would be more than happy to continue to supply blanks 'for airsofters'

 

also, perhaps more importantly to put this scaremongering into perspective. the current firearms laws in the uk DO NOT even require a shotgun cert to buy shotgun ammunition - most gunshops insist on it to prove they are being responsible, it isnt a legal requirement. so technically you can already buy LIVE ammunition in this country without certification (and you think that BLANK ammunition will soon go Sec.5 - er no )

 

GR20, clearly a fantastic innovative product (but imo not a direct replcement to a bfg due to much higher running costs)

[Rob15]

Well I've now decided I'm not going to bother getting one of these for now, the extra charges may sway me though, especially if the smoke is good however it will have to be extremely good for me to consider using a smoke in it over a disposible dual-vent smoke when I can throw it, move and then not have to worry about finding it again after. If anything though I might just buy another BFG which is already very cheap to run and has a wide range of possible blanks.

 

Where is this info about restricting sales of blanks coming from though? Considering most places that sell blanks also sell unrestricted blank firers that are home office approved I'm not really sure why they'd decide to make it a section 5 cert for buying 9mm blanks, especially when you can buy yourself a load of actual ammuntion on a section 1 certificate.

 

Even so, if they say did make the purchase of 9mm revolver blanks that the BFG uses a section 5 certificate purchase you still have the option of 9mm auto blanks, 8mm auto blanks, .22 long and short blanks, .25 blanks and the good old 12g shotgun blanks.

[Clot]

Just thought I would add to this.......

 

F&O @ The Mall are selling an adaptor for the BFG which allows the use of shotgun primers, which they sell at a tenner per 100!!

 

They are on the lesser noise side, but they do give off a nice crack, perfect for low noise sites.

 

 

[greg]

and as for your scaremongering about possible changes in uk law,

Please excuse me, I tried to phrase it as carefully as possible, so as not to be accused of 'scaremongering'. Note the use of the word 'MAY', 'ROOMER' & phrase, 'IF THIS HAPPENS'.

 

I am well aware of current regs & was first alerted to the possibility of changes at my local gun shop.

 

When I bought it up at my local gun club, it appeared to be common knowledge. The general consensus being that you would need the same license for blanks & ammo, that you need to own the fire arm for which it is intended. EG. to buy shotgun blanks, you will need a shotgun license etc. Is a 9x19mm semi automatic pistol not section five? That is a genuine question, I thought it was.

 

This is hypothetical, I thought I made that clear, I'm sorry if my comments confused any one. IT MIGHT HAPPEN.

 

I was hoping that someone on Arnies might have been able to clarify the situation.

 

If it does, be careful about saying 'I have mates who are prepared to break the law & supply me with blanks', on an open forum. I would have thought that as license holders, they would be more responsible than that. But who am I to judge.

 

 

Greg.

[DrKalinka]

Here in Norway we have a problem with over protectiveness and this might just fit the bill if we want a grenade. But 120dB sounds a bit loud as it will probably be used in very small rooms.

 

Any info on weight? That's what most people in Norway are whining about. "I don't want to be hit in the head with something that weighs the same as 3 cellphones!" So yeah. How much does it weigh with a charge in?

[hotelkilo]

no one was thinking about breaking the law

 

if a cert holder bought some blanks and let me use some at an event is that any different from someone lending me a shotgun and ammo at an informal shoot ? either way i would be being supplied with ammuntion from a cert holder, but if that is used in accordance with the law (and probably on a bone fide site) then will there be a problem? i suspect not

[greg]

2 of the group had current shotgun certs and said they would be more than happy to continue to supply blanks 'for airsofters'

Thank you for clarifying that.

 

 

Greg.

[greg]

Any info on weight? That's what most people in Norway are whining about. "I don't want to be hit in the head with something that weighs the same as 3 cellphones!" So yeah. How much does it weigh with a charge in?

8.3 oz.

 

 

Greg.

[hotelkilo]

Thank you for clarifying that.

 

 

Greg.

 

 

i havent 'clarified' anything, my point was the same all along so either you didnt read it correctly the first time or you are taking the ######

 

 

Please excuse me, I tried to phrase it as carefully as possible, so as not to be accused of 'scaremongering'. Note the use of the word 'MAY', 'ROOMER' & phrase, 'IF THIS HAPPENS'.

 

This is hypothetical, I thought I made that clear, I'm sorry if my comments confused any one. IT MIGHT HAPPEN.

 

well actualy you were suggesting a draconian set of regualtions for the use of blank ammunition, and at the same time as making dire prohecies you were not clear about your sources or reasoning, sec.5 indeed. as you probably know the so called "9mm" blank ammo used in BFG's is the rimmed type, so technincally blank revolver ammunition and not even sec.5 to own and use a RS version.... even those are Sec.1 i believe.

 

However, there is a looming law change, that may make 'blanks' very hard to get hold of. Roomers are that you will need a section 5 FAC to purchase 9mm blanks by this time next year. If this happens, Dynotech will probably have to offer a Dyno-specific charge, which will inevitably cost more than a 9mm blank.

 

 

Scaremonger - One who spreads frightening rumors; an alarmist - i'll let others decide if the deffinition fits here

[sierra hotel]

Are any state side retailers carrying these?

[greg]

Scaremonger - One who spreads frightening rumors; an alarmist - i'll let others decide if the deffinition fits here

Well, you've obviously made you mind up.

 

Which, by your definition means my post could have possibly 'frightened' or 'alarmed'.

 

Again, please be reassured that this was not my intention. I was sharing opinion, based on the info I had.

 

Do you have any specific information on the subject? Ie, exactly what the proposed changes in law will mean? How likely the proposal is to get in? & when it might happen?

 

I have stated that I don't have all the answers & was hoping that someone on Arnies would be able to give advice.

 

My only interest now, (as I don't own a bfg) is to get the facts right.

 

It is kinda off topic (non-GR20) but interesting none the less.

 

Greg.

[greg]

i havent 'clarified' anything, my point was the same all along so either you didnt read it correctly the first time or you are taking the ######

No, I was not taking the ######.

 

Your post #36, paragraph 10, kind of read (to me) like a possible offense; the supply of a prohibited article etc.

 

Your post #41, puts this in a different perspective.

 

We are of course talking about a hypothetical, so how the law (if changed at all) turns out, is any ones guess.

 

I really think we should put up a new thread, to see if there is any solid info on this.

 

BACK ON TOPIC:

 

I used my GR20 this weekend at Epsom & the lower levels of The Mall, 14 times in total.

 

My concern was the primer, or cap bang, on release of the spoon, being confused with a detonation. This was not a problem. The cap bang was relatively quiet, & shouting a loud "GRENADE", warning, at the exact time I threw it, covered the noise.

 

Re loading is a bit fiddly & therefore, time consuming. The first few took about twice as long as a BFG, by Sunday afternoon this was closer to one & a half. It will obviously get quicker with confidence & practice but I doubt it will ever get as quick as a BFG. My main problem is getting the pin in. This is a bit random, sometimes it goes in first time, others, it's a bit of a chore. Ill fitting Kevlar solags & bad lighting probably don't help.

 

The fuse time was very accurate, a solid 2 seconds. No variance. There were no duff detonations, 14/14.

 

Delivery of this thing is a joy. I am reliably the worse throw, in the world. Darts, ain't my game, however, the size, shape & weight was perfect & underarm, 'bowling' gave me some very satisfying results. Once on the deck, the GR20, takes a very straight path, no random bounces.

 

Thus far (I know it's early days) there is no sign of damage. This surprised me. Especially at Epsom, where the floor is very uneven brickwork &, I was fairly heavy handed.

 

Obviously there was a lot of interest, as most have yet to see these.

 

Overall, I found it was great, easy to store (pistol mag pouch), simple deployment & an effective result.

 

The thing that it is hard to put into words, was the grin factor. They just feel, soooooooo, good. Fitting your hand just right, when you pull the pin, there is a sort of excitement that I don't usually associate with pyro. BFG's remind me of chucking a tennis ball & disposable pyro's are like you are 9 years old & chucking a banger.

 

Bowling a GR20, kind of puts you in the 'role', if you get my drift. Suspension of disbelief & all that. Seriously good fun. IMO, well worth the extra money (compared to a BFG) & a possible saving, compared to what you can spend, on 'pull-pin' disposables.

 

 

Greg.

[madwelshman]

Greg, couple of years back, nobody would have believed you if you told them they would base a whole heap of restrictions on airsoft, based on knife crime, that would totally change the way we can buy/sell and play airsoft forever.....

 

He who laughs last.....laughs loudest (or didnt get the joke )

[greg]

Greg, couple of years back, nobody would have believed you if you told them they would base a whole heap of restrictions on airsoft, based on knife crime, that would totally change the way we can buy/sell and play airsoft forever.....

 

He who laughs last.....laughs loudest (or didnt get the joke )

I know what you mean but wont be laughing, if what I was told at my local gun shop & gun club, come to pass. Yet more nanny state restrictions, that will have little or no effect, on crime rates.

 

 

Greg.

 

 

[hotelkilo]

this is just my opinion but i suspect any 'proposed' changes to the current firearms laws are just the last acts of an unpopular government as they try to rally (any) support before an election.

 

i personaly dont think that blanks will go 'on ticket'. it would entail a lot of admin costs etc for not much return in the way of (perceived) public safety.

 

although of course i might be wrong and blank ammo could require a shotgun certificate to purchase at some point in the future. if that does happen i wonder if they will do the same as they did with all the thousands of brocock revolvers. my friend got an instant Sec1 fac because he had a brocock and declared it before the ban (a couple of months later he got a variation and a .22rf rifle) all from just owning a air pistol legally at the time of a law change.

 

so if there is a change in the law, will all of us legitimate blank ammunition users be automatically granted 'hassle free' shotgun certs? heres hoping..

 

 

[hotelkilo]

greg, the GR20 is clearly a brilliant new product with the added advantage of being a good (re)useable airsoft pyrotechnic. your account of its use over the weekend reminds me of when i 1st got a BFG, quite a few years ago now, at the time they were also unusual (and seemingly v expensive) and lots of ppl umm'd and arr'd about the cost vs benefit -- and now BFG's are more costly yet quite common at any airsoft event.

 

the GR20 might well be worth the extra running costs for ppl that want a 'more realistic' reusable pyro, you obviously think so

 

glad you enjoyed using ur new toy... er sports equipment