The Reptile House Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 This is for the continuation of debate about the TSI Tavor as suggested by Marlowe HERE. Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I think a lot of expectation around build quality specification was created but very painfully (and not to mention slowly) failed to deliver in a very dramatic way. I also think there's an awful lot of denial (from a few) getting the data to fit the curve when clearly the data is so far off the correct curve that one wonders what fantasy land the curve belongs in. Unfortunately TSI Tavor appears to be out of RS size and possibly disproportionate. Its build material does not come near the high spec of ARES version and the build quality - well the TSI Tavor appears to be very sqeeky. Even with regard to this obvious creaking build, there is some self-denial emerging! I for one am very and deeply disappointed- I was hoping for a PTW class Tavor replica. Instead it seems that the TSI version falls well short of the ARES for build quality. Even performance wise, taking several seconds to switch fire modes is totally absurd and even in this regard there's denial in the form of 'oh it does not matter'!! I only hope TSI produce a new version - looking at and handling the ARES TAVOR would not be a bad start. Link to post Share on other sites
neoptolemus Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 ............ In the previous thread you said you would unsubscribe and stop visiting it. Yet you continued to post about how disappointing the TSI was and how you wouldn't ever buy one. We ALL know you don't want one. And we ALL know you own an Ares and have never touched the TSI. Also we ALL know how you need a first-rate milsim rifle for your intense military operations So why don't you just stop posting on the subject? I'm interested in hearing from TSI owners. I'd love to see the Ares Tavor put next to the TSI by someone who has access to both. Also, more information on the operation of the gun would be great too. Link to post Share on other sites
papi808 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 My TSI Tavor is sched to be delivered to me tomorrow and I already borrowed a friend's Ares Tavor so I should be able to post some comparison pics by Wed. Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 In the previous thread you said you would unsubscribe and stop visiting it. Yet you continued to post about how disappointing the TSI was and how you wouldn't ever buy one. We ALL know you don't want one. And we ALL know you own an Ares and have never touched the TSI. Also we ALL know how you need a first-rate milsim rifle for your intense military operations So why don't you just stop posting on the subject? I'm interested in hearing from TSI owners. I'd love to see the Ares Tavor put next to the TSI by someone who has access to both. Also, more information on the operation of the gun would be great too. You have a PM about your uncalled for, off-topic and unwarranted sarcasm- it does not add anything to the discussion to which all and any member can contribute to. It will be very interesting to get detailed build material and precise dimensions from TSI. Surely this would quickly clarify some key issues about the TSI tavor. It seems very odd that with the other TSI AEGs being of such high build quality and spec that they have now something seemingly on the opposite scale. Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 The TSI is far too big over and above any alleged problems with quality and the fire control system. You don't need magic eyes to tell, it just looks wrong. This isn't a problem like the ICS M4 having a tiny bit longer receiver, its not one picture at an odd angle, its an aeg being sold for an astronomically high price which at some stage has seen an enormous cock-up that either went unnoticed until anally retentive airsofters saw it or someone figured they'd get away with it cos its a limited run. Link to post Share on other sites
neoptolemus Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 You have a PM about your uncalled for, off-topic and unwarranted sarcasm- it does not add anything to the discussion to which all and any member can contribute to. It will be very interesting to get detailed build material and precise dimensions from TSI. Surely this would quickly clarify some key issues about the TSI tavor. It seems very odd that with the other TSI AEGs being of such high build quality and spec that they have now something seemingly on the opposite scale. My warning level hasn't changed bub, so until the mods tell me to reel it in I'll say I've done the right thing in telling you to can it. I'm surprised the TSI owners in the previous thread tolerated your over eager posting. You know, you still haven't given a good reason for continuing to post. Here's what you said on the 8th of November: "That's it. My patience has been truely stretched. I really was expecting to sell my ARES Tavor to get the TSI version. No more. I really now appreciate what a good bit of kit I have. I'll check-in in about 12 months time. My gut instinct about a company that cannot be bothered to put up pictures of its product was right after all. Good luck to you all- I really mean it. You guys have been so patient, understanding and positive. TSI shoudl count themselves lucky to have a collection of customers like you guys. If it was my money I'd have gone thermonuclear by now. I'm unsubscribing from this thread of woe! " And then you continued posting all the way up until the 13th telling everyone how obvious it was that this was a terribly manufactured product that would in no way stand up to your intense combat operations. You even went so far as to suggest that TSI should use the Ares as a starting point! I get it already! Yes the Ares is a cool gun. I've held one and it felt absolutely fantastic. But I want to learn more about the TSI replica and your posting is not helping. I want more reviews, more comparisons, and more information from owners. I don't want to read anymore of your posting when I already know what it's going to be about. You have NOTHING new to say. This is all very off topic, but I'm quite frustrated with your posting. You dominated the last half of the last thread, and until you buy one of these, go operate somewhere where your opinion is wanted. Link to post Share on other sites
Azulsky Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 There seem to be a number of people in the previous threads who claimed that their Tavor had arrived or was going to arrive by the time of this posting and yet we have no information from them, so why arent they filling in the gaps. Specifically someone who said they had an Ares on hand to compare it to? I cant find the old threads this has bounced around too much. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 My warning level hasn't changed bub, so until the mods tell me to reel it in I'll... Your warning level isn't going to change unless you get a real strop on but can we assume you've been told to reel it in? Seriously, uneducated rants either for or against any product get us nowhere. Can't you guys just agree to disagree and move on? There's no need for bbstriker to post "I told ya this would suck" in reply to everybody but, equally, there's no need to people to moan at him for his opinion. I must say, the animated .gif that Cazboab posted earlier is the closest thing to a result I've yet seen. There's no weird lines or squashed-up pictures with mags reducing in size by around 25%. It's just a pic of an M4 that stays the same size while the Tavor underneath it seems to change shape pretty significantly. Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I've asked the question before but does anyone have any info about what the TSI Tavor is built from? I've checked the TSI site and other posts on Arnies but it seems no one has cited the receiver material. I assume the handguard is ABS in any case Does the manual that comes with the gun say what it's built from? Also, can the MOSFET be programmed (or re-programmed) by the user? Also, given that are are now a few people on Arnies who actually have the gun in their hands, whether we can get some accurate measurements using the same metrics as on the RS IWI web site. Link to post Share on other sites
DrKalinka Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 According to TSI's homepage, the tavor is constructed from glass filled nylon. Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 According to TSI's homepage, the tavor is constructed from glass filled nylon. OK. Thanks. I missed that. Perhaps the creaking in the video was not as real as it seemed after all. Perhaps their reviewer did have a means of making the furniture creak out some resentment. Perhaps he did break the gun before his review? I just had a disturbing e-mail from Neoptolemus in which he claims to work for TSI as head of their quality control (which might explain the rant earlier on) and goes on to say: "TSI put me up to attacking you in order to take down the anti-TSI syndicate. We decided that you were such a threat, we've diverted all our resources to making you look like a fool. While we've been successful in that regard, you can see how we had to cut costs with the AEG production." EDIT: As Stealthbomber (and reptilehouse) has alluded to below, perhaps the above extract is a sad form of sarcasm in the PM but not I'm 100% sure. On a more postive note, if Neoptolemus does work for TSI perhaps he can provide a fully detailed spec about the TSI Tavor and provide some assurances that the TSI Tavor really is or is going to be the definitive TAVOR Replica? Also, what about the GBB kit- the thing that attracts me most about the TSI Tavor? If the TSI Tavor can be shown to have high build quality and a GBB option, then I would go for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Having just read that PM, my first thought it that it was sarcasm. If that isn't the case my second thought would be that the writer was an immature tosspot. If that isn't the case I shall be talking to Marlowe about getting all further mention of TSI products removed from Arnies because I'm not happy endorsing any item sold by a company with that attitude. *EDIT* Actually, I think I might fire off an email to TSI forwarding that PM to them. If the sender DOES work for them I'm sure they'll want to know about it and if the sender doesn't work for them I'd like to hear about that too. Link to post Share on other sites
The Reptile House Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 There seem to be a number of people in the previous threads who claimed that their Tavor had arrived or was going to arrive by the time of this posting and yet we have no information from them, so why arent they filling in the gaps. Specifically someone who said they had an Ares on hand to compare it to? I cant find the old threads this has bounced around too much. My TSI Tavor is sched to be delivered to me tomorrow and I already borrowed a friend's Ares Tavor so I should be able to post some comparison pics by Wed. Mine should be shipped today BTW - until then I can't add anything about the AEG. bbstriker - I think you may be having your leg pulled, mate . Link to post Share on other sites
Amoki Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I went back into the thread and try to find out any actual information posted on the length on the Tavor (partly to reassure myself... heh) and just to muddy the water a bit: TSI saying their gun to be 100% accurate to the RS counterpart: here TSI saying their gun is 684mm (a good 6% longer/bigger) than the 640mm of the original size): here TSI saying the CTAR being 620mm: here (shorter than the original CTAR) Confused yet? So the company who makes them claim that their CTAR is the same, longer, and shorter relative to the original CTAR at some point in time... Link to post Share on other sites
bknewcomb Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Body of the gun is nylon buttplate is rubber front grip, top heat shield, both sights, selector, and left ejection port are abs metal trimmings here and there. Again, the body of my gun doesn't creek. Only the abs ejection cover does. If I twist it enough, the front heat shield will, but I really gotta try hard. To me (and this is me and my ears)ost of the sounds comoing off of YouTube were A: the ejection port....it really should be metal B: a hand knocking against the body. C: the gearbox tends to knock on the side I'd the gun when turned, making a muffled sound that sometimes sounds like a subdued creek. Easily fixed with a bit of foam sheeting. FYI, I tested it and the gearbox does not slop around while firing, just from rapid side to side motions. The quick release feature's drawback, I guess. ...And bbstriker, you are most definately having your leg pulled. That PM didn't make any sense at all. Link to post Share on other sites
The Reptile House Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Confused yet? So the company who makes them claim that their CTAR is the same, longer, and shorter relative to the original CTAR at some point in time... Just to add to this, do we know if the IWI's stated length includes the flash hider? Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Confused yet? So the company who makes them claim that their CTAR is the same, longer, and shorter relative to the original CTAR at some point in time... Maybe they measured it at a funny angle? Link to post Share on other sites
papi808 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hey all- quick update, just got a notification from UPS that my delivery has been rescheduled to the 19th. Is it just me or does it take an act of the almighty to get this thing. I do have my friend's Ares sitting in my room waiting. Things I'm planning to cover with the review: TSI- Detailed pics of body and mechbox comparison shots of ARES & TSI models Body measurements & weight FPS test (Chrono'd) Groupings (Semi & Full Auto) Fire Control inlcuding the time delay issue changing from semi to full auto In game use (As long as it doesn't get delayed again, I have a skirmish this weekend) Overall impressions Though I will be opening the box on the TSI I won't be able to open the Ares as it isn't mine. Let me know if there is anything else specifically that you guys are looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
beretta Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hey, Thanks for the info, I look forward to seeing it. A small request though if ya don't mind, Can you take some comparison pics of both of them while on maybe a checkered background or something? it could be anything from kitchen tiles to a metal grate etc etc. It'll make scaling shots a lot easier as the background patterns will help to get the scale identical in both shots, especially if the camera remains in the same position for both shots. thanks, Link to post Share on other sites
papi808 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 No problem, I was thinking of running a tape measure across both pics. Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Having just read that PM, my first thought it that it was sarcasm. If that isn't the case my second thought would be that the writer was an immature tosspot. If that isn't the case I shall be talking to Marlowe about getting all further mention of TSI products removed from Arnies because I'm not happy endorsing any item sold by a company with that attitude. *EDIT* Actually, I think I might fire off an email to TSI forwarding that PM to them. If the sender DOES work for them I'm sure they'll want to know about it and if the sender doesn't work for them I'd like to hear about that too. Its quite obvious (to me atleast!) that its sarcasm. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Its quite obvious (to me atleast!) that its sarcasm. I know the guys over at TSI. To the best of my knowledge, neoptolemus is in no way affiliated with TSI. I'm guessing the PM was sarcasm. Link to post Share on other sites
bbstriker Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Got an e-mail from a buddy last night about info he saw on TSIs Facebook page. In response to someone's question on the TAVORs receiver material and GBB capability, a guy called Ben Greif replied saying that the TAVOR receiver is ABS. Quoting him below: "ABS, and I wouldnt expect the GBB kit any time soon, if ever." Don't know if he's connected with TSI or not so it may just be his personal opinion/guess. TSIs website does state nylon material as opposed to ABS. Don't even know if he even has a TSI TAVOR. Perhaps uscmcorps can confirm if he's part of TSI Armouries? Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 It seems to be the same guy who made a 4 part video review of the gun. Link to post Share on other sites
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