Guarder P226 Build Need Help!

[Xander Bolanos]

So I recently installed a Guarder 2010 MBK for a P226.

I installed all the pieces and filed and sanded the blow back unit, then I sanded with a fine grit sandpaper the slide and frame till the slide moved freely with no friction and manually racked it with silicone oil. I have done everything within my limited knowledge to make this pistol work, but its not working. I wanted to send it to a Tech to build it for me but I couldn't locate a tech to do it.

 

So I built it myself

With alot of help from the P226 Disassembly guide by

amateurstuntman

Who ever you are sir thanks for getting me this far

Its a really nice paper weight at the moment and while I enjoy looking at it.

It would be nice to shoot it at people.

 

 

How it used to look

 

How it looks now SEXY

 

 

 

 

The problems I'm expierencing are

the slide will not cycle properly

will not load bbs

or reset hammer in firing position

slide does not move more than a half an inch when fired

I can manually rack a bb and when I chronoed it, it shot 285 fps

 

 

A couple times I manually pulled up the knocker lock and I got it to fire and fully lock the slide back with all stock internals. I have since installed a King Arms Piston and Valve in the nozzle

 

I've sanded the slide and frame pretty smooth I think and racked it a couple hundred times with silicone oil so theres no friction and it doesn't catch anywhere except for a little ramp shaped part on the bottom of the blowback unit, catching on my hammer theres nothing restricting movement besides that.

 

The part only catches on the stock recoil spring but not the upgraded 150% recoil spring so I don't think thats the source of my problems but I don't know? I haven't changed the hammer spring as I hear that causes more problems and just to leave it stock or put a shim under it to make it stiffer.

 

Heres pics of it, its at the back of the slide

 

The little wedge at the rear with the half circle cut out at the bottom of the shiny little ramp

 

 

I also had an issue with the knocker lock spring its part # P226-38

being improperly installed which resulted in it being squished and as a result the knocker lock doesn't sit up all the way. This is the little silver part that is on the left side of the rear hammer assembly behind the slide stop.

 

 

heres a pic of how it is

you can see it is sunk in below the rail line

 

and this is how supposed to sit you can see it above the rail line

 

I don't know if this is the reason my slide isn't cycling?

I think this part might have something to do with the amount of gas released from the magazine?

It seems the gun is not getting enough gas to push the slide more than half an inch. I've checked my mags and made sure my valves are facing directly upward into the rubber seals, so I'm not losing gas there and they are lubed and not leaking at all plus I'm making sure they are filled all the way.

A couple times I manually pulled up the knocker lock and I got it to fire and fully lock the slide back with all stock internals

Anyone know where I can get a stock knocker lock spring? Without having to buy a whole spring replacement kit.

 

 

So far my list of upgrades

Guarder 2010 MBK

VFC threaded outer barrel

RS Hammer Spring seat so I can put on RS Grips later

Guarder 150% Recoil and Hammer Springs

Guarder Enhanced Piston Lid

Madbull TBB

King Arms Piston and Valve kit

I also have a hi flow valve but I don't want install it.

 

I would appreciate any help on this and if anyone has a shooters design, airsoft surgeon, proud, loading nozzle they want to get rid of that would be awesome. If you have any P226 Upgrades feel free to pm me as its going to be a while before I can see the classifieds section since I'm nowhere near a 100 posts

[heroshark]

I had trouble with my slide locking against the barrel on mine. It wasn't noticiable when cocking but firing it would not cycle. I had to file the sharp right angles where the slide and barrel pass over each other. Have a look a how they enguage with each other. Also ditch the 150% springs use the stock ones they only ever hindered cycling in mine .

[BaBaBooey]

So it sounds like the 2010 kits need a lot of work like the older ones?

 

Before you start filing, check if you have the same problem using the stock barrel. If so, as heroshark suggested, there's a chanse that something is wrong with the shape of slide that requires some filing to it or the barrel.

 

The lack of the spring for the valve lock is problematic. Did you have the problem when the spring was there?

 

There might be an issue with cylinder that's not letting the piston lid move freely. Try using the stock cylinder/nozzel and piston lid. The cylinder valve is probably ok as you're getting a little blowback. Another possiblity is where the cylinder/nozzle is getting caught against something in the slide. Replace the stock components into the blowback unit and see if you have the problem.

 

It might be the blurry photos, but you don't want too much oil inside the blowback unit, hop chamber, and barrel.

 

Good luck.

[Xander Bolanos]

Heroshark

The stock internals are the way its been run, all my upgrades have been installed since in hopes of resolving the issue. In fact the only times I got it to lock back was with the 150% spring and manually pulling up the valve knocker.

But tell me more about these right angles I need to be looking for?

 

BaBaBooey

I will try the stock outer barrel to see if that helps.

The problem was not present when I had the knocker spring there and not damaged in a stock configuration, but its still currently there its just squished is all so its not springy enough to push the knocker all the way up and I've not been able to assess the issue in the upgraded body as the spring was damaged in the installation of the mbk.

Its only been run stock so nothing aftermarket to hold it up, but when I installed upgraded recoil springs and manually pulled up the knocker I got it to cycle fully and lock the slide back. I have since installed the piston head and valve in hope they would alleviate the issue.

Its just the photo I only put a little silicone oil on and wiped off the excess with a q tip.

[BaBaBooey]

Well if the gun was working with the knocker lock spring, it might be the knocker lock spring?

 

When you put the slide back on the frame, does it fall into place on it's own weight or do you need to force it back on? Try loosening the screw (#52) that holds the front chassis (#51) a bit...see if that helps.

 

It's a good idea not to get too much oil on the blowback unit as it might make its way inside and eventually down into the hop chamber. You can clear it by firing 40 or 50 bb's through it. I usually use silicone grease on the slide rail.

[heroshark]

by the sounds of things I'd get a new spring for that lock before you get the file out. How strong does it blowback?

[Xander Bolanos]

I tried the stock outer barrel, only difference was the bottom of the blowback mech didn't catch on hammer. I spoke with a gun tech from AEX today who said the blowback catching on the hammer was not unusual or a huge deal. I got the slide to lock back againthis time with the new piston and valve so pretty sure they're good. I can pretty much say I believe it is all a issue of the spring. I even think I know whats happening

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ReviewDetail?reviewID=199

link to gas blow back operation diagram^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted

Upon firing the trigger, the hammer knocks the main valve open via a firing pin. Another term for the firing pin is "valve knocker". The valve is now open. There are locking devices to keep the valve open for a certain amount of time even when the slide goes back to cock the hammer.Western Arms puts valve locks on their magazines, while others incorporate the lock into the firing mechanism to hold the firing pin (or valve knocker) out. The slide trips the lock later during the cycle to allow the valve to close. Western Arms puts valve locks on their magazines, while others incorporate the lock into the firing mechanism to hold the firing pin (or valve knocker) out. The slide trips the lock later during the cycle to allow the valve to close. The main valve lets the gas into the loading nozzle. Inside the loading nozzle, a switch valve (aka. floating valve, rocket valve...) directs the gas behind the BB to shoot it out of the barrel. The gas flow causes the switch valve to move forward and block the gas flow into the barrel. As the pressure inside the loading nozzle builds up, the slide is forced back by the blowback piston. It has been confirmed with high-speed video equipment, that the BB makes it out of the barrel before the slide has time to move, so the recoil does not affect accuracy!

Basicly its why I have decent fps when chronoed but bad blowback the knocker is open so the gas is being released but because its squished its not being tripped after firing, so it can't close and and push the slide back.

 

[BaBaBooey]

Keep in mind that the "valve knocker" and "knocker lock" are two different parts. On the Marui P226, the slide pushes the knocker lock down as it blows back - when the knocker lock is down, it retracts the valve knocker which closes the main valve in the magazine.

 

Here's a quick video I took regarding the front chassis. Notice that the slide drops down on its own weight when loose. As I tighten the chassis onto the frame, the slide gets more resistance causing cycling problems. Please check your front chassis to see if it's on too tight, preventing a smooth blowback.

 

Again, like in my video, the slide should fall down into place with zero resistance. If there is any resistance, your pistol will not cycle properly.

 

 

On a side note, when you chrono your air gun, make sure you take 10 to 20 readings and see if you get consistent output (when the mean, median, and mode are nearly identical, it typically indicates your gun is working properly; if the output is not consistent, it's a good indication that something is wrong). A single reading is usually meaningless. It's also good practice to clear your gun before taking readings - fire at least 30 to 40 bb's. I like using 0.25's, but I see that a lot of people use 0.2's as it typically gives higher power readings.

 

I hope this helps.

[Xander Bolanos]

So I tried tightening and loosening the chassis screw like on the video which by the way I appreciate .

I don't know if its the weight of the metal slide or what? Because it didn't matter if the screw was screwed in tight or loosened all the way, there was no change, the slide did not bind up at all and slid all the way everytime.

I was able to drop the slide on its own weight and it didn't catch anywhere.

Is your P226 plastic? Because it would make sense that plastic has more flex than metal an tightening the screw could cause the parts to have friction. Otherwise if your frame and slide are metal I don't know what to say? Mine had no flex with the screw tightened down or loosened.

[amateurstuntman]

Thanks for the PM, that guide was done many moons ago for the older Guarder MBK, I haven't seen one of the new ones.

 

It could be that the top of the loading nozzle it rubbing on the underside of the slide.

I had that issue once and it caused similar symptoms.

[BaBaBooey]

Thanks for the PM, that guide was done many moons ago for the older Guarder MBK, I haven't seen one of the new ones.

 

It could be that the top of the loading nozzle it rubbing on the underside of the slide.

I had that issue once and it caused similar symptoms.

 

Good to see that you're still around - you've provided us a wealth of good information on the Marui P226 over the past several years.

 

The condition you described happened to me using a combination of the Laylax/Nine-Ball Dyan piston head, inside an SD nozzle/cylinder, and a PGC/Pro-Win slide. I had no clue as to why this combination caused it to get stuck against the slide. It would just jamb up and the slide wouldn't return to battery. As soon as I switched back to the stock Marui nozzle/cylinder did the problem go away.

 

Xander - I'm using a PGC/Pro-Win kit. I've never weighed it, but I can't tell the difference between it and the stock plastic slide/frame by holding it. I would make replacing your knocker lock spring a priority as it seems all your problems started when it failed.

[Xander Bolanos]

Gun is working now courtesy of AEX tech sending me the spring for the knocker, and saving me from spending $25 for just a spring by ordering the spring replacement kit from evike.

All is well pistol is awesome and if I hadn't smashed my original spring my gun would of been working weeks ago.

I have installed upgrades that have me shooting at 315fps with good blow back, awesome kick, and makes me smile when I shoot it.

I did benefit from this spring being broken, I spent alot of time sanding and polishing my rails to make the blowback work even thought it was the spring.

As a result everything moves smoothly, and the Guarder kit would've been a easy build if I hadn't smashed the spring. I also bought some upgrades that have just made my gun that much better.