MP5 Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Hi all, I am currently looking for a reinforced gear box for my new project m4. I have been looking around a bit at gearboxes and they seem to range in price quite a bit. There is a CA v2 for $22.50 while there is a Progear for $65.50. I have no idea what the differences would be. If anyone has any experience with reinforced gearboxs could you please recomend be a decent one, Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Hi all, I am currently looking for a reinforced gear box for my new project m4. I have been looking around a bit at gearboxes and they seem to range in price quite a bit. There is a CA v2 for $22.50 while there is a Progear for $65.50. I have no idea what the differences would be. If anyone has any experience with reinforced gearboxs could you please recomend be a decent one, Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, if you start by telling us where you are and what you plan on doing with the gun then perhaps we could be more help. Beyond that, what's wrong with the one that's in the gun right now? Link to post Share on other sites
MP5 Posted August 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Thats the thing, im starting a new gun by building an m4 from scratch. I just thought it would be easier to buy a reinforced one from the start instead of replacing it later on. Link to post Share on other sites
pgup.dk Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 The CA is fine (for a 6mm bearing gearbox) But I would go for a G&P or CA 7mm gearbox. Also remember to buy all the springs, anti-reversal latch, trigger assembly and so on. Often it is easier to find a donor marui gearbox containing all of this... Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 You've gotta be nuts to builda gun from scratch. Every so often somebody pops up and announces they're gonna do this and it NEVER happens. It's way too expensive and you'll always be confused about parts compatibility. I'm guessing you want to build an M4 from scratch so it's as good as can be. Just buy a damaged (preferably with damage to the receiver or something) Marui M4 for peanuts and work from there. At least then you'll know to buy all Marui compatible parts. Alternatively, if you want a head start (and you like the looks) buy a G&P M4 as a base. To build a $300 AEG from parts is going to cost you upwards of $1000. Link to post Share on other sites
pgup.dk Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 It's not completely stupid... for instance I want an OD green guarder metal body, a G&P crane stock (complete set with tube), and a guarder RAS2 front set 733-length. That leaves me with only gearbox and proper hopup unit missing... Gearbox is a G&P and all you need then is a donor box or order parts seperately. The sad thing is that it, in my economy, is unrealistic. Buyin a G&P or CA armalite and then replacing the parts one by one is not, so that's what I'm doing... Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Just do what the rest of us do. Buy a Marui and replace the parts inside. There is more to a gun than the body and a gearbox. Wiring screws Motor All of these things have to be in there to succeed. but if you must build one like this...I'd suggest the following site for parts. Just go there and go to the parts section and have a look around for the ones you want. They sell Marui gearboxs and Motors as well as just about everyother company that makes airsoft equipment. www.wgcshop.com ~Prometheus Link to post Share on other sites
Buttons Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 I'd suggest the Hurricane, or just purchase a complete gearbox to drop in... You're going to have enough of a hassle with the body and other parts setting it up, why also deal with the gearbox? Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Ok... All parts from WGC. Here we go. Internals Hurricane gearbox shell $65 Hurricane Tune up kit $42 Hurricane aluminium piston $22 Phoenix Gear Set $96 Guarder trigger $15 Trigger switch $12 Safety catch $8 Anti reveral latch $12 Spring kit $10 Tappet plate $14 Hop Up $29 Bucking & sleeve $10 6.04mm barrel $50 Shell Guarder stock $96 Metal receiver ~$150 M4 front set $92 Pistol Grip $23 Carry handle $56 Receiver pins $16 Trigger Guard $8 Motor plate $10 Magazine $30 Grand total $860 And that's without really trying. I KNOW I've missed out parts such as the wiring, the shims, the motor shim, screws, catches and a bunch of other bits I couldn't find. This is a dumb idea. Stop it. [edit] Prometheus immediately reminded me I forgot to add in a motor. Doh! Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Ok... All parts from WGC. Here we go. Internals Hurricane gearbox shell $65 Hurricane Tune up kit $42 Hurricane aluminium piston $22 Phoenix Gear Set $96 Guarder trigger $15 Trigger switch $12 Safety catch $8 Anti reveral latch $12 Spring kit $10 Tappet plate $14 Hop Up $29 Bucking & sleeve $10 6.04mm barrel $50 Shell Guarder stock $96 Metal receiver ~$150 M4 front set $92 Pistol Grip $23 Carry handle $56 Receiver pins $16 Trigger Guard $8 Motor plate $10 Magazine $30 Grand total $860 And that's without really trying. I KNOW I've missed out parts such as the wiring, the shims, the motor shim, screws, catches and a bunch of other bits I couldn't find. This is a dumb idea. Stop it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Posted for truth. Original poster...can't remember your name. Just buy a Used Marui and get doner parts for it. You will have much more money at the end if you do this than just buying all the parts for it. ~P Link to post Share on other sites
pgup.dk Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Never ever get hurricanE tune-up kits. They are terrible build quality. Never ever use a heavy aluminum piston. Inexpensive plastic pistons decrease wear on expensive gears and adds less hammering to the gearbox. Link to post Share on other sites
MP5 Posted August 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Im going to be changing most parts. Full metal body, crane, stock, front end etc. Money really isnt an issue as I will save over time. Thanks anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 Never ever get hurricanE tune-up kits. They are terrible build quality. Yes, but they contain bushes, spring, spring guide, cylinder and cylinder head which a lot f**king easier than listing all those parts seperately and finding prices. Never ever use a heavy aluminum piston. Inexpensive plastic pistons decrease wear on expensive gears and adds less hammering to the gearbox. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whatever. Was the first "upgraded" piston I came across, in line with the theme of upgrading a gun. Personally, I use Marui pistons and screw Systema piston heads to them if neccesary. Other than that, I hope you understood the point I was making rather than just nit-picking? This isn't going to turn into a p1ssing contest is it? Link to post Share on other sites
pgup.dk Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 I don't hope so, but I'm just trying to help... I have heard several reports of hurricanE tuneup kits having bad cylinders and other failing parts. I know you were just comparing prices, but I really don't see the hurricanE as a real alternative and I just wanted to make sure nobody looked at the post and thought "this must be good, I'll have one of those"... if you get my point... Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 I have heard several reports of hurricanE tuneup kits having bad cylinders and other failing parts.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> TBH, I do agree with you about the Hurricane kits. I picked it out simply cos it contained a bunch of bits I would have had to price seperately. Regarding the piston, I am not a fan of alloy pistons at all. Every system should have a "weak link" which can break. A plastic piston is your weak link in the gearbox. I'd rather have a dead £15 piston than a dead set of £50 gears. As above, though, the Hurricane alloy piston was just the first "upgraded" part in the list so that was the one that went in. TBH, I don't think I've ever used any Hurricane parts at all. I use Systema, Guarder and, other than Marui, I think that's about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 MP5: I was also planning to build a gun from scratch, but I now agree with the others. You should buy a complete gun and switch the parts you want to. It's a lot cheaper, because when you change the stock and front end, you can sell the original unused parts. A few of my buddies did this and they ended up having guns with almost all external and internal parts by third party manufacturers, without spending a fortune. As for the original question: If you have your mind set on upgrading everything, get a complete pro gearbox with all the internals installed. If you choose to install the parts yourself, I'd recommend the original Marui gearbox and filing it. Compared to most others, it has by far the tightest tolerances I've seen so parts will fit more easily. When filed, it can withstand any spring I can think of. I can't go into detail because of forum rules. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
pgup.dk Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 I would definately not recommend the marui gearbox Well, it is a cheap alternative to G&P or classic army. But selfthreading screws suck, you only go 6mm, 7mm is a must have in my opinion, unless if youre on a tight budget. The material is just not good enough for tuneups. Link to post Share on other sites
Gene Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 I have a reinforced gearbox, I can't remember what make it is, but if you swing a few by me I might remember. Anyway, the main problem for me was the switch plate. After much trial and error, we found that the prometheus switch plate worked the best. Just fyi. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 pgup.dk: I never saw the great benefit in 7mm bushings. Would you kindly enlighten me? Also the threads aren't a problem unless you mess them up. But if you can't screw properly, you shouldn't be tinkering with the box in the first place. About the material. All "reinforced" boxes I've seen (CA, ICS, Tack, Fastec, Progear) are made of a pot metal. I've also seen them all break (except the Tack), so I fail to see how they correct the problem with Marui original boxes. As I said, you have to file it to reinforce it. I've done upgrades way beyond skirmishable and the boxes endured those springs, so I don't see what you get for the extra money. With a few CA and ICS boxes the measurements were so terribly off that I had to file Systema parts to fit into the box. One ICS box I had to discard completely, because the flat surface which meets the grip was at a wrong angle, causing a gap between the receiver and grip and causing bad gear mesh between the bevel gear and pinion. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 As above. Take a dremel with an 8mm grinding bit in it and use it to radius all the internal corners in the gearbox then use it to deburr any remaining parts and you're all set. 7mm bearings are supposed to be better than 6mm ones because they can take higher loads. Crazy thing is, the gear spindles, themselves, are still the same diameter. WTF is that all about? Link to post Share on other sites
cazboab Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 IMO the 7mm gearbox is just another example of how shinier/bigger/wider is "better" in airsoft. Link to post Share on other sites
Catchv22 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Does the larger diameter of the bearings spread out the force? The spindles are the same, but the spindles transfer the pressure to the bearings. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Does the larger diameter of the bearings spread out the force? The spindles are the same, but the spindles transfer the pressure to the bearings. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Supposedly. Somebody recently posted a link to a website which was prattling on about the different loads that various bearings would take. As I say, the thing they all neglect to mention is that it's all beside the point. It doesn't matter if 6mm bearings can take 70lbs load whereas 7mm bearings can take 120lbs load. The critical factor, in both cases, is the load that the 3mm (or whatever they are) gear spindles can take. Hissing Sid: Airsoft Mythbuster strikes again! But your 7mm bearings in the same cupboard as your helical gears and twist barrels! Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Actually 7mm _bearings_ should much better than 6mm bearings. I always use and recommend bushings nowadays, so I didn't even think about it. Definitely not the same ball part as twist barrels, and I beg to differ about the helical gears as well but that's a whole other topic. The 3mm gear axles or spindles aren't a problem. I've seen too many bearings (6mm) fall apart on upgraded guns. The small bearings inside are the tiniest I've ever seen. There's more space between 3mm and 7mm than 3mm and 6mm, and the change is relatively big because the bearings are so small to begin with. If the quality is equal, 7mm bearings are better than 6mm and it does make a difference. But not to me, as I'm converted to bushings only. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
pgup.dk Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Of my experience 7mm bearings are not just shiny........ ROF is increased... A lot... On high FPS guns, they actually last... 6mm bearings break and the small bearings run into gearbox and destroy the gears... Link to post Share on other sites
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