44 replies to this topic

[Catchv22]

You can see it here.

[Johannes]

have h&k ever made any m4/m16 guns (real guns)

[para-trooper]

no but they were planning to do upgrades, then colt stopped em, tbh i could'nt we what was wrong it was just a internal upgrade like they did for the SA80

[14692]

Johannes, on Oct 29 2004, 03:23 AM, said:

have h&k ever made any m4/m16 guns (real guns)

[post="25606"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes, they do made HK-M4 (or called the HK416)

[14692]

Catchv22, on Oct 29 2004, 02:19 AM, said:

You can see it here.

[post="25572"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

here's the image, hope you don't mind

[Longhairedhippy]

They did make the HKM4, and I know they currently manufacture and sell an enhanced magazine.

[Phoenix]

I think the hurricane body looks nicer, since its painted an all.

[Tackleberry]

HKM4:


HKM4C - a civilian post-ban version of HKM4:

Edited by Tackleberry, 29 October 2004 - 09:44 AM.

[Major_Payne]

I've seen the guarder HK body and it doesnt look anything like the hurricane one. As i remember it had the large "HKM4" on it and not like the small one the hurricane one has, and it looks way better to me. I think thats y guarder took it off the site way back then and currently hiding the logo picture in the coming soon preview picture cause they know its the *beep*. Also its a special edition one so its gonna be in limited production.

This is how the logo i remember before they took it off:

I hope they still have that same design

Edited by Major_Payne, 29 October 2004 - 01:04 PM.

[unimatrix001]

para-trooper, on Oct 28 2004, 09:28 PM, said:

no but they were planning to do upgrades, then colt stopped em, tbh i could'nt we what was wrong it was just a internal upgrade like they did for the SA80

[post="25610"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It isn't stopped, just renamed. New designation is HK416. The Problem was the Designation HKM4, because "M4" is a trademark of Colt Firearms Mfg.. So Colt sue HK in the US to force them to change the designation.

It seems that Colt tries everything to hinder HK producing a reliable AR-15 variant.

BTW: It's embrassing for Colt that they weren't able to fix the gas-system in over 40 year of development. HK did it in about 10 to 12 month.

Edited by unimatrix001, 29 October 2004 - 04:34 PM.

[Tackleberry]

unimatrix001, on Oct 29 2004, 05:32 PM, said:

BTW: It's embrassing for Colt that they weren't able to fix the gas-system in over 40 year of development. HK did it in about 10 to 12 month.

[post="26207"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Let's see..

The following companies are manufacturing AR15, or AR15-uppers, with the same gas-system as Colt:

http://www.bushmaster.com/
http://www.armalite.com/
http://www.cavalryarms.com/
http://www.vulcanarmament.com/
http://www.knightarmco.com/
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/
http://www.rockriverarms.com/
http://www.diemaco.com/
http://www.fnmfg.com/
http://www.pri-mounts.com/
http://www.barrettrifles.com/
http://www.dpmsinc.com/
http://www.olyarms.com/

Seems like lot of people think that the gas-system of AR15 works quite well.

[Catchv22]

The gas system wasn't broken, it's just not as efficient or reliable as a gas piston system. Plus, H&K were not the first ones to make a gas piston system for the M16 series.

[unimatrix001]

@ Tackleberry:

Yes all this companys (and a few more) manufacture the AR-15, but with exeption of FN Herstal not only one of these companys deliver rifles to the military. Also these companys manufacure higher quality rifles than colt in my opinon.

Catchv22, on Oct 29 2004, 10:24 PM, said:

The gas system wasn't broken, it's just not as efficient or reliable as a gas piston system.

[post="26308"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exactly thats the point. As a sport-rifle or a law enforcement weapon the Gas-System of the AR-15 will do the job. These weapons are cleaned often (Mostly after every use), and you have the time to that. But for a military weapon I don't think it's a good choice. Especially if it's used in the desert areas of the middle east. In a real combat-situation you will not have time and possibility to clean your Rifle two or three times a day only to ensure the function.

Any US-Soldiers here? How often it's recommended to clean your Rifle in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Quote

Plus, H&K were not the first ones to make a gas piston system for the M16 series.

Yes, but the first that is made on request of the military if I'm right. The other gas piston Systems are only for LE an Civilian Market as far as I know it.


What i said is no offense to the AR-15, i like this weapon for its modularity, ergonomics, style and handling. But for reliability reasons it won't be my first choice.

[Major_Payne]

Catchv22, on Oct 29 2004, 01:24 PM, said:

The gas system wasn't broken, it's just not as efficient or reliable as a gas piston system. Plus, H&K were not the first ones to make a gas piston system for the M16 series.

[post="26308"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

actually i remember hearing this somewhere, but the actual first ar-15 was a gas piston operated rifle made by Eugene Stoner. But i forgot y he changed it to the gas tube now.

[Catchv22]

H&K were not asked to do it, they chose to do it themselves, just like the XM8. What ###### people off even more is that they won't offer the new H&K M4 to the US Army, but want them to buy a completely new system (XM8).

Eugene Stoner made the AR18 which was designed to replace the M16 with a gas piston system and was cheaper to manufacture, but the M16 and AK47s had taken off and it was hard to market them with the Soviet flooding their allies with AKs and Americans flooding their allies with M16s.

[The Punisher]

This news message is a few months old, but it's still worth a look. Read it and have a good laugh:
http://www.colt.com/mil/news.asp

"Both Bushmaster and Heckler & Koch have developed copycat versions of the M4 to profit from Colt’s good name and reputation."

[mayemura]

Tackleberry, on Oct 29 2004, 03:15 PM, said:

The following companies are manufacturing AR15, or AR15-uppers, with the same gas-system as Colt:

http://www.bushmaster.com/
http://www.armalite.com/
http://www.cavalryarms.com/
http://www.vulcanarmament.com/
http://www.knightarmco.com/
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/
http://www.rockriverarms.com/
http://www.diemaco.com/
http://www.fnmfg.com/
http://www.pri-mounts.com/
http://www.barrettrifles.com/
http://www.dpmsinc.com/
http://www.olyarms.com/

Seems like lot of people think that the gas-system of AR15 works quite well.

[post="26265"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I believe the large number of AR-15 type manufacturers are primarily a result of others trying to take advantage of the expiration of Colt patents to make money in the assault rifle market.

The direct gas operating system found almost exclusively in AR-10, AR-15, M16, and M4 rifles has not been adopted in other weapons. This operating system is known for reliability problems due to propellant gases and carbon residue being introduced into the weapon's receiver during firing, which does not occur in other popular operating systems, including the HK416's short stroke gas piston system.

[Catchv22]

How many companies bottle water, which has relatively no advantage over filtered tap water? Just because a lot of people copy and profit from it, doesn't mean it's a brilliant beyond genius idea.

[Tripod]

What does ANY of this have to do with airsoft besides the original post? Is this ArniesRealsteal.co.uk now? I think not... Anyone that has either never seen an M4, never touched an M4, never fired an M4 is posting in here about the M4 then I suggest you keep your mouth shut as you're basicly talking through your butt.

[Qhs]

Wow this thread is massivly off-topic.