KSC Mk23 SOCOM Upgrade

[steviec]

Hi there,

i have a KSC H&K Mk 23 SOCOM GBB which is great but the recoil spring is very weak and allows the slide to fall back a couple of centimetres if you hold the gun upright. Any ideas where I can source an upgrade spring in the UK. Also, I heard about a metal slide and outer barrel - any comments?

[rizzo]

metal outer barrel would be a plus if you wanted to attach a silencer (its a socom, do it!) as the metal threads are far more versatile than the plastic thread on the barrel of a stock KSC Mk23

[Antagon]

If you want a slide and barrel, make sure you buy a Shooters Designs set. While you're at it, pick up some strong recoil springs, and I think theres a few other parts...

[AQMS]

Hello there

I have not found a place in the uk that sells them (i had the same problem) i ended up ordering from WGC you could phone AD and Ask them to source you one.

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

*resurrection*

 

I've just got my MK23, and I have the same problem with the metal slide and barrel. Both fall back a centimetre or two if held vertically.

 

I've looked for a while and I'm not sure where to get a stronger recoil spring; I'm not even sure what spring is in there right now. What kind of spring should I get, and how much should I expect to pay? A little help sourcing a stronger spring wouln't go amiss either

 

Thanks.

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

It's getting really annoying now. It may be the lack of gas, but the slide sticks back sometimes even when there are still rounds left.

 

I could get the ANGS recoil spring set, but I'm not sure how good it is...and I have to order from HK. Anyone know what the strongest recoil spring for the MK23 is (or if I actually require the strongest - to fix the slide falling back, do I want the strongest spring ever or not)?

[Utty]

It's getting really annoying now. It may be the lack of gas, but the slide sticks  back sometimes even when there are still rounds left.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you cleaned and lubed the slide catch?

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

Cheers for the pointer. Run out of lube; I just ordered another can. Which part is the slide catch, then? I can't read Japanese...

 

It's probably that there's very little gas in the mag (run out of gas too). Never mind about that, though; I want a recoil spring

[Utty]

Heheh, no lube and no gas? Poor gun.

The slide catch is the one you press down to release the slide after it locks back when the mag is empty. If the slide catch is gritty and sticky, it might cause the problem you're experiencing. Actually, now that I think about it, my KSC USP Compact did the same thing at one point, a thorough cleaning and lubing cured it.

 

Always, always keep your GBBs cleaned and lubed. They're sensitive. Be considerate. Give them plenty of lube before you have fun with them.

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

Yeah, I've got it. I'll give that a good cleaning later

 

Well, this is my first GBB, hence me having no gas; I only had a tiny bit of 134a in a can left by a friend a while ago...the lube has just been emptied away on my AEGs. I hate the thought of guns breaking or being mistreated, so I can assure you this SOCOM's in a good home

 

Though I'll have to do something about that slide; I've found it now clacks backwards and forwards if I hold it by my shoulder, muzzle to the ceiling, as I walk. Funny, yes...annoying, definitely. Fix me!

 

How's the USP C anyway? I imagine it's pretty similar to the MK23...?

[Utty]

Yes, that won't do. I just hate weak recoil springs in GBBs.

 

Now the USP Compact was heavily upgraded. The stock recoil spring is very weak too, but after upgrades, the slide action was very firm and very quick. I'd like to think a MK23 could become just as satisfying.

An idea: while the stock MK23 recoil springs are a faithful reproduction of the real-steel two-stage recoil springs, I suspect that even with upgraded springs, the recoil would be relatively mild. The two-stage recoil spring is designed to dampen recoil. How about using one single, long recoil spring?

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

Yeah, I'd noticed the dual spring setup. It would be good to try having one long spring and doing away with the smaller one - however, I wouldn't trust myself not to end up with a gun that doesn't work properly afterwards. Besides, having a recoil spring set like the real-steel's is a bonus; in essence, I don't mind the fact that it dampens recoil as that's what the setup was designed for in the first place

 

Did you upgrade your recoil spring then? And which type? There are so many makes for the MK23 (all of them in HK, unfortunately) that I don't know which will keep the slide firmest.

 

Thanks mate!

[Utty]

Sure, but the real one has that .45 ACP recoil that needs dampening, the KSC one has that wimpy recoil that needs to get much stronger.

Besides, the stock recoil spring for the KSC USP is a flat-type, just like the real-steel. The upgrade springs are normal round-type. After feeling the awesome, snappy kick of the upgraded USP, I did not miss the more realistic stock spring for a second.

But maybe the upgraded two-stage recoil springs for the MK23 offer satisfactory performance - I don't know, I never tried one. Where do you intend to buy from? DEN has a Shooters Design set for a measly 10 bucks, and it includes the two-stage recoil springs and a hammer spring. That's what I would go for. And if you read this review, it seems to be a good idea to get a spare part 30 and a reinforced part 66 too (DEN has those as well).

[Hissing_Sid]

How much gas does an upgraded Mk23 get through anyway?

 

I figure that you add a metal slide which means you need a heavier recoil spring, then you need to add a heavier hammer spring and, possibly, hi-flow gas valves to get enough gas out to cycle the slide.

 

Are they heavy on gas?

[Utty]

Amount of gas used by an upgraded GBB depends on how strong the hammer spring is, what kind and which brand of flow valve, what kind of gas you use, the ambient temperature, how fast you shoot, and how well-cleaned and -oiled you keep your gun. In other words, it's individual.

It's pretty safe to say that it uses at least as much gas as a stock gun though. Unless it's specifically upgraded to be more gas efficient, of course!

[Hissing_Sid]

Amount of gas used by an upgraded GBB depends on how strong the hammer spring is, what kind and which brand of flow valve, what kind of gas you use, the ambient temperature, how fast you shoot, and how well-cleaned and -oiled you keep your gun. In other words, it's individual.

It's pretty safe to say that it uses at least as much gas as a stock gun though. Unless it's specifically upgraded to be more gas efficient, of course!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh. Ok.

 

I kinda got the impression that you were talking about the Mk23 from experience. In which case you'd know how much gas it used as standard and how much it used after you'd put the metal slide, springs, valves and other bits in.

[Utty]

Well, all my upgraded GBBs show an increase in gas consumption, because that's what the power upgrades do - more gas released per shot. Any reason why an upgraded MK23 would not be heavy on gas?

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

Well, my MK23 has KM highflows in each mag, TN barrel - I think - and (clearly) needs stronger springs for the metal slide and barrel. I've got a Firefly rocket valve, too, but that's not inside it at the moment

 

Do you run all of yours on Green, Utty?

 

Anyway, you would have thought the SD recoil springs were fine...though the gun apparently already has the SD springs in. The slide still falls back.

 

Anyone? I'm pretty sure WGC sell an ANGS set for about $13; was wondering if those are the ones BTS (up there ^^^) bought and how well they'd perform.

[Tommygunn]

This is what I did to my recoil system after fitting a Zeke metal slide & outer barrel. The spring is from a local spring dealer and it was free as it wasn't worth charging and the green spacer, which controls the travel of the slide, is a shop till roll inner tube and is 41.5mm long. All other parts have been discarded except for the front and back metal mounting washers and clip.

Best thing to do when selecting an unknown spring is take the original and at least double its strength as you'll need it to shift a metal slide. Another thing is that the metal slides do stick and need some time to wear in before that stiction is eliminated.

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

Wow...nice finish on the slide there. That from skirmish use or did you make it like that?

 

Was it easy to mod the spring system then? I think, if I understand right, that you just took away the smaller spring in the system (underneath the large outer one), replaced it with that spacer and then added a double-strength spring where the large one would normally go?

 

Does the spacer only cover the area where the smaller spring was, or does it completely block it up (so the larger spring actually stops where the spacer is, making it about half normal length)?

 

What exactly did this do - I mean, did it improve blowback, or fix the slide falling problem? And would it not have the same effect as just replacing the original springs with stronger ones, but keeping the same setup?

 

I'm not very good with springs Thanks Tommy; it's definitely an interesting setup!

[Tommygunn]

The spring goes all the way to the rear and rests against the rear silver washer (aka the original). The spacer tube is super glued to the rear washer and sits around the spring and at the base of the guide. All other parts, i.e. secondary recoil system are redundent.

The slide comes about from hard combat usage!

To do this is easy. Just unclip the circlip at the end and the washer original spring etc will come away. The secondary spring system will require a punch and pliers, if I remember rightly, as there is a pin to be knocked out.

Glue cut down tube to rear washer, place over spring guide add new spring (cut slightly longer than the space it accomodates), replace end washer and re-attach circlip.

Voila.

[Utty]

That's very interesting! Sounds like a fun project. And man, that Zeke slide looks so goddamn awesome, looks like it's seen some heavy use. Which is a good sign, must perform hella nice?

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

Right - so is the spacer required just because there's no secondary spring system any more?

 

And what exactly does the setup do (ie, does it make recoil harder, or prevent the slide falling back - ideally, I'd like a set that does both)?

 

How do I tell what strength springs are, other than squashing them between my fingers? And are there problems that can come about from having a recoil spring that's too strong, like messed up recoil or harder slide racking?

 

Sorry about all the questions. I'm curious and eager Anyway, this is really helpful; thanks!

[Utty]

If the recoil spring is too strong, the slide won't blow back all the way. Also, even if it does blow back all the way, the spring may be so strong that it soaks up most of the recoil, which isn't any fun either.

AND, if there are too many coils on the spring, so that it gets fully compressed before the slide has blown back all the way, then that won't work well either.

A nice, firm slide racking is desirable in a GBB - of course nothing like cocking a springer, more like a real-steel gun.

 

Tommygunn, so that setup causes the slide to slam against the spacer tube, where it would have impacted on the secondary recoil damper spring in the stock setup? This must result in a pretty heavy recoil with your setup?

[PlayerOneVsTheWorld]

OK. So if I were to set something like this up, I'd have to look for a srping stronger than the current one, but not so strong as to mess things up.

 

I guess I would have to count the spring coils and get one of similar (maybe slightly larger) length, that is also about twice as strong...?

 

As Utty said, Timmy, doesn't the spacer being there produce quite a hard kick? Whilst that's good, won't it start to wear down the spacer, or at least make it a little weaker over time?