65 replies to this topic

[FarEast]

Feeling the Pressure.

In recent months the Airsoft community has seen the rise of a new challenger for title of “Manufacture King” when it comes to the release of wanted replicas, G&G seems to have its finger right on the pulse of the Airsoft community while the old favourites Tokyo Marui seem to be letting things slip.

I found out recently from a member of the Tokyo Marui staff that the M14 has actually been in production for the last 2 years and wasn’t the 3 month wonder that everyone thought it was. In a way I’m saddened by the fact as this dashes a lot of hopes of Tokyo Marui producing anything new before the supposed VCR bill goes through in the UK. Especially the L85A1/2.

So what is the future going to look like?

Well G&G although being smaller really seems to have a management team that can get the gears turning and the products on the shelves, yes there have been a few teething problems with the UMG (Tappet plate) and the M14 (Heavy Trigger) but the amazing thing is that G&G is willing to rectify these problems for free! Unlike Tokyo Marui that expect the customer to fork out for the necessary upgrades or replacements of parts regardless if it’s a design fault or not. G&G also have one serious Ace up their sleeves, a fast manufacturing turn around, thus being able to actually make the guns to meet the demands of the customers within a short period of time while keeping the price reasonable.

So what is so wrong with Tokyo Marui?

Well for one, it’s a one man ship, having the CEO (Owner, Director) making the choices of guns made on his preference rather than listening to the market research and the Airsoft community (There must be hundreds of signed petitions for various guns) is a real bad thing as it shows a lack of vision by a company and it’s leadership for the future of the sport, also the fact that Tokyo Marui really doesn’t have a good relationship with the press is another issue, rather than give factual and positive press releases to the Airsoft community it is left to speculate and rumourmonger about the future releases of this giant within the Airsoft world thus leaving a lot of disappointed and disgruntled people when the replicas fail to materialise .

So is it all bad?

Not really. The rise of G&G and other even smaller Chinese, Taiwanese and Hong Kong based manufactures seems to have a bee in Tokyo Marui’s bonnet. When I last spoke to the guys at Tokyo Marui they were very interested in my views of the competition and the future of their company. It seems very likely that they will move away from the plastic bodies and follow G&G with the lightweight metal bodies; also it seems that they are thinking of moving into the upgrade department too, gears, springs and motors to name just a few.

But is this too much to late for Tokyo Marui, or is it still the wrong direction for them?

In my opinion yes it is, there are so many companies out there that produce excellent upgrades for our sport, Systema, Phoenix to name just a few and to be honest I think they do it much better. Another reason is it still doesn’t address the problem of what the customer actually wants, to quote Neo; “We need guns. Lots of guns” and that’s the fact of the matter. The Airsoft community looks to Tokyo Marui for the production of cheap good quality guns regardless of what materials are used, that’s what 3rd party manufactures are for!

So where is this going to lead us?

It looks like the future is firmly in the hands of central Asia. The economic Boom of China is having a very positive impact on our sport, mainly in the cost of production and materials. Also the general public having more money to spend on their hobbies is causing a price war among retailers in the battle to take customers cash, thus driving down the prices of their products, while also providing a relatively good customer service (Most places in Asia only provide a 30 day money back warranty as this is all that is required by law) for over seas customers.

So can Japan compete with this?

Not really, Japan’s economy has been stagnant for the past 10 years with consumers reluctant to spend their hard earned cash also with the artificial land prices and the fact that Japan needs to import all its resources, factories need to charge more for the products they make to actually make a profit. Japan could do much better to move their manufacturing plants to central Asia to take advantage of the lower overheads, but will they do this? Not really Japanese industries tend to be very xenophobic when it comes to central Asia (KSC is a classic example of this having to different names for its products, one for Japan *KSC* and another for the rest of world, of course the KSC in Japan costs more than the overseas versions!)

So what is my prediction?

Unless Tokyo Marui can adapt to this fast changing market and either keep pace or set a new one with its mainland challengers in Asia I really think Tokyo Marui is going to fall within the next few years as they like the rest of the Japanese economy stagnate and flounder due to leadership problems and lack of vision. China on the other hand is showing a very healthy boom in both hobbies and economy with companies showing strong leadership and the willingness to listen to the community that purchase their products while also having the power to produce high quality items at a fair price within a short period of time . And let’s face it G&G has produce 3 high quality replicas in the past 3 months, M14, UMP and the GR300 (LR300) which proves they are very serious about taking the “Manufacture King” title.

[Qhs]

TM was bound to fall after the failure of the 18c AEP.

[kjs7]

I agree. Other Manufacterers are catching up to TM. The only reason why I dont think they have been beaten is because of price. $355 for a Gr16 is too much for a casual airsofter. The gun is pretty great, and most have great reliability but the price is steep. If other companies had lower prices(which im glad to hear prices will probably get lower soon ill wait for the GR16 to get a price drop before i get one) than TM would probably be alot less succesful everywhere but japan. Gun variety isnt as big for TM now as other companies are making versions of TM guns that are better bang for your buck.AK74(close enough to the TM Ak47), AUG, G36,M14,the UMP which i know isnt a Mauri, and the Gr300 to name a few.

This competiton will be great for airsoft and our wallets

[Magsz]

I agree with most of what you said but only the parts about TM's popularity floundering.

G&G produces some of the best weapons as far as externals go but their internals are absolutely garbage. The mechanical issues coupled with high prices means i will NEVER spend my hard earned money on a G&G gun until they function properly.

[Sledge]

As I understand it, until now, TM haven't given a stuff about us, because they're focused on the Japanese market. Does this mean that even in Japan, their popularity is waning?

Oh, and did the 18c AEP fail? They brought out the 93r. That would suggest the 18c did well enough, surely?

™

[kjs7]

I agree with most of what you said but only the parts about TM's popularity floundering.

G&G produces some of the best weapons as far as externals go but their internals are absolutely garbage. The mechanical issues coupled with high prices means i will NEVER spend my hard earned money on a G&G gun until they function properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as i know the Ver.2 have fixed most of the problems and the guns are alot better now.

[Jordan74]

If they aren't popular in Japan (which like sledge said, everyone knows they care about japan) then they are definatly gonna fall. And G&G are getting alot better with every gun they come out with. Instead of replacing all the internals, now you have to get a few new parts. Maybe Classic Army and ICS should start making more variety of guns (like they are doing now with their AKs and CAs new G36 and SAW). One of the popularity reasons with TM is most likely thier variety of guns, but they are losing that. So, with all these other companies (and new, cheaper but still good quality, like UTG) focusing on taking care of internals, which is all TM had over them besides selection, and making more kinds of guns. Not everyone, but most people would take a CA or an ICS m4/m16/or mp5 over TM, because of better quality externals (and now with almost the same quality internals) for a similar price. All the other companies are giving the people what they want...improvement, more variety, and focusing on other places than Japan/HK, etc.
Thats just what I think....give it time and all TM will be to CA/ICS/G&G is like UTG is to marui now...but utg will be there, so they aren't looking very good.
Note: I think marui makes great products, and maybe they will not be doing very good with their AEGs (although they are very good quality), but they still have gbbs/nbbs/aeps/etc...and what will keep them around for a little longer....variety. They have guns that the other companies don't.
Thats just what I think...FarEast, you have the news about more than just upcoming guns...amazing

[Shao14]

Hehe, I think this thread is more appropriately titled "the future of Tokyo Marui" instead of "the future of airsoft."

[systema]

Revive.The.Classics.

[Holmes]

Aye, but Shao, TM IS airsoft!

[Shao14]

Aye, but Shao, TM IS airsoft!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, but from what FarEast said, it won't be pretty soon. Heck, it's already not outside Japan. At least not to me. The only TM product I'm still remotely interested is the M14, but for the money, I'm more interested in CA or ICS, and *gasp* UTG upcoming products than TM's. I'll give TM credit (a whole lot of it) for pioneer the way for airsoft, but it is being superseded now for better or worse.

[FarEast]

I agree with most of what you said but only the parts about TM's popularity floundering.

G&G produces some of the best weapons as far as externals go but their internals are absolutely garbage. The mechanical issues coupled with high prices means i will NEVER spend my hard earned money on a G&G gun until they function properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have to disagree with the internals being garbage. Remeber G&G are some what new to the mass production. As for garbage could you elaberate more? As far i was aware the Version 1 gear box only caused a heavy trigger mech and the tappet plate isn't really that much of a deal and as i said sorted out by G&G even before the 1st complaints came in.

Also on another note buying G&G although more expensive than TM you have to realise and admit you are saving money. The G&G's role in at just under 1 J as stock they also have metal bodies. To do the same for any given TM AEG your looking at an extra 20,000 JPY.

Also I have a feeling YOU might be payinf well over the odds for a G&G weapon $286 is the most yo should pay for the UMG. and $450 for a G16.

The G18c was not a flop and the increase in sales over the winter period will prove it, most players here in Japan will have to switch as -8 conditions even with winter gases isn't going to help matters so the only options are the TM AEP's.

[FarEast]

Hehe, but from what FarEast said, it won't be pretty soon.  Heck, it's already not outside Japan.  At least not to me.  The only TM product I'm still remotely interested is the M14, but for the money, I'm more interested in CA or ICS, and *gasp* UTG upcoming products than TM's.  I'll give TM credit (a whole lot of it) for pioneer the way for airsoft, but it is being superseded now for better or worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same for me my 1st love was with a TM G3 SAS and although i have moved on i will always have a deep regard for TM and what they did to the game, ie; brought it to the masses......70% of players coudn't afford a AEG if TM was not around but like yourself i find myself more excited about G&G, STAR and other companies upcomming releases....mainly the G&G GR16 LR300ml and for 42,000 JPY US$472.00 im not going to complain!

Why?

Well it's full metal, 1J from box and is sexy as hell...... if the motor or gears aren't upto scratch big deal they get replaced as soon as i open the box with Systema parts anyway.

Edited by FarEast, 20 September 2005 - 04:51 AM.

[Basho]

Feeling the Pressure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you nuts? The G&G M14 is ######! Both people I know who bought one have already sold it. As for the Glock 18c MAEG, well the hardest of the hardcore airsofter I know loves his and I can vouch for the excellent performance of the M93r.

I think perhaps that new crew bringing out copies of TM gun will make a dent, but TM will simply innovate again.

[FarEast]

Are you nuts?  The G&G M14 is ######!  Both people I know who bought one have already sold it.  As for the Glock 18c MAEG, well the hardest of the hardcore airsofter I know loves his and I can vouch for the excellent performance of the M93r.

I think perhaps that new crew bringing out copies of TM gun will make a dent, but TM will simply innovate again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In your wisdom can you tell me where TM as inovated in the past 5 years?


And yes TM is feeling the pressure maybe you should read the entire post again...... especaily the part about me talking to a TM employee. Also TM is worried about thier home turf Japan as the consumer is starting to wake upto the fact that TM is not the be all and end all of the Airsoft world and that other non-Japanese manufactures are offering better equipment than TM for around the same price.

Edited by FarEast, 20 September 2005 - 07:25 AM.

[Shao14]

One thing TM seems to be doing right is their new GBB range. All the recent ones are solid performers and at a very manageable price. Although the plastic on some of them doesn't look as good, but they do hold up against green gas fairly well. For instance, you can see some wear on my KSC USP compact's slide around the slide catch slot, but you can't see any wear on my TM Sig (both use green).

[Utty]

Hmm. I'd be surprised if TM went under within the next few years. Yes, they are very slow at bringing out new products, but to me it seems but a part of their marketing strategy, and it seems to work.
TM survives on a good reputation and on the huge hype surrounding each new release. I'm sure they hold back each release just long enough for the hype to build to a maximum. Then they enjoy huge sales of the product when they release it, and let it sell for a nice, long time before launching anything new.

So I agree that TM doesn't really listen to what models the customers want - there is no need, as many people will crave the new TM releases whatever they are because, well, they're new TM releases.

Of course, that could change, if TM's products couldn't compete with the new chinese AEGs in any way. Maybe TM realise this, seeing as some of their recent models are mostly metal where they're supposed to be (VSR, M14).

I'd be exciting if the chinese guns became so good, of such consistent quality and at such competitive prices that TM would change their strategy and be more conscious of the customers' wishes.

Edited by Utty, 20 September 2005 - 09:01 AM.

[FarEast]

The thing is having spoken to one of the guys at TM it's not a strategy but more a case of poor leadership (CEO not sure what he actually wants) and taking far to long in the manfuactturing process.

Don't get me wrong every single one of my AEG's wass originally a TM before they got striped and rebuilt with metal bodies and the likes.

Im in no way saying that TM is going under or that they will not be around in two or three years...some of you have read far to much into this. What I am saying is that TM's profits are seriously being cut into now by various companies, they survived thee last onslaught durring the boom years by producing good quality guns within a short period of time but in the last 5-6 years TM has got complacent and has reaised to late that the hounds have smelt the blood and are going forr the kill.

[Utty]

Maybe that's what that TM guy thinks. Maybe the TM CEO knows better. Maybe.

[Basho]

 
In your wisdom can you tell me where TM as inovated in the past 5 years? 
 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The MAEG? Seems obvious.

In order to compete with the up and coming manufacturers, TM will need to come up with a new innovation for full size AEG's. This is my opinion.

Personally, I think they only need to start producing metal bodies to go straight back up to the top. There are many ways to innovate in airsoft and it is coming to the point of needing something big. Perhaps they can start producing us poor UK people see through AEG's to get around the VCR? We could then paint them black and bobs your uncle*

It cannot go without mention that TM are the most reliable of AEG's. It is only a lack of default power that holds them back. Their designs are usually very good and they have tons of accessories. With the right idea TM will bounce back.


Basho



*As far as painting an AEG you already own, I don't think this can be judged illegal and I will be pulling apart the legislation when it finally appears.