Almighty Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 From the start, I've always questioned the idea of using cooking gas, or propane, as a cheaper alternative to most airsoft gases. I always got the argument how well the adapter was made and that it meets safety standards. While those things may be true.. the real question was not about the quality of the product, but the use of the gas. Again, all I got were lot of hypothetical arguments. So I decided to ask those whose job was to know best about the subject. Here is the lowdown.. as they say.. "straight from the horse's mouth": After discussing your question regarding using propane in airguns, my colleagues and I have concurred that we must advise against using propane as a propellant for air soft guns. As a hazardous substance, propane should not be stored or used in applications that would allow its release to the atmosphere. There are other concerns regarding the container that it is stored in and whether it meets appropriate construction standards. Finally, if the gun is exposed to fire or even just stored in a hot location, the pressures would increase and possibly cause a failure of the container, most certainly presenting a severe safety hazard. Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns. Sincerely, Courtney Gendron Courtney Gendron Propane Education & Research Council 1140 Connecticut Ave., NW Suite 1075 Washington, DC 20036 PH: (202) 452-8975 Fax: (202) 452-9054 http://www.propanecouncil.org http://www.propanesafety.com Let us see anyone debate that. Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 So you asked someone who knows about the gas, but knows nothing about airsoft or the construction of gas gun mags? Link to post Share on other sites
Tripod Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Ok. So do you think we should get rid of GBBs then, since 80% of them run off of propane? Find 1 single report of someone blowing up their gun, please. I will give you my GBB, if you do. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 You pays your money, you takes your choice. Propane IS green gas. Are you advocating stopping using green gas entirely or are you trying to say that propane is, in fact, somehow more dangerous than green gas. It occurs to me that the same people you have spoken to might also suggest that carrying a cigarette lighter which contains pressurised flammable gas is also dangerous. So is eating chicken. So is crossing the road. Thanks for the heads-up though. Link to post Share on other sites
Gene Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 My arguement would be, millions of bottles of green gas and propane have been used, and are still being used for airsoft purposes. There have been no reported or publicized injuries or dangerous malfunctions. That's enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Propane and green gas are identical. Green gas has lube and perfume in it, but thats' the only difference. I've NEVER heard of a mag rupturing or of any explosion caused from a green gas capable pistol. Plus the tolerances of a gas magazine will be much higher than the pressures even the hottest day will reach. Ok, if you throw a gas mag into a fire, then yes, it will explode. So will any other pressurised container, eventually. Personally, I'll keep using mine. Link to post Share on other sites
G23_40SW Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 we must advise against using propane as a propellant for air soft guns. Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 list]After discussing your question regarding using propane in airguns, my colleagues and I have concurred that we must advise against using propane as a propellant for air soft guns. As a hazardous substance, propane should not be stored or used in applications that would allow its release to the atmosphere. There are other concerns regarding the container that it is stored in and whether it meets appropriate construction standards. Finally, if the gun is exposed to fire or even just stored in a hot location, the pressures would increase and possibly cause a failure of the container, most certainly presenting a severe safety hazard. Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns. Sincerely, Courtney Gendron Link to post Share on other sites
JKon Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I won't lie to you, there is more of a risk using propane than there is using some weak duster gas. The better explain this, look at my scales. 0/10 being least dangerous, 10/10 being lethal. Risk of danger using a springer: 0/10 Risk of danger using weak duster gas in a blowback gun: 1/10 Risk of danger using propane (green gas) in a blowback gun: 1.00001/10 As you can clearly see, it's more dangerous. PS, never ask someone who knows nothing about what they are talking about for help, it's more dangerous than 'trial and error'. Link to post Share on other sites
Tripod Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Haha, the curseword filter filtered the URL. Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Haha, the curseword filter filtered the URL. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> now it works Link to post Share on other sites
Holmes Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Once I hear an actual claim that something bad has happened with a GBB using propane, then I will bother to even dignify myself with a responce to the Propane Council. Oh *fruitcage*, I just did. Well, Ghost sums it up nicely. Link to post Share on other sites
G23_40SW Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Risk of danger using a springer: 0/10 I've seen crappy springers where the slide has come fyling off along with the piston spring, i'd say they're more dangerous than propane gas guns Link to post Share on other sites
Zephyranthes Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Well I was at 5 feet away from a green cas can that exploded. It was sitting in a guy's flat bed truck in broad daylight, and suddenly it exploded. The top flew off about 30 feet, and the explosion was so loud, I could feel the concussion. I think using propane bottles from teh store is safer than buying green gas because propane has thicker bottles and has an emergency release valve in case of too much pressure. Propane is also tagged with a hideous stench to indicate a leak. Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Well I was at 5 feet away from a green cas can that exploded. It was sitting in a guy's flat bed truck in broad daylight, and suddenly it exploded. The top flew off about 30 feet, and the explosion was so loud, I could feel the concussion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Leave 134 in the same flatbed for another ten minutes, and that will explode as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Almighty Posted October 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 While the PERC may not know about airsoft.. I doubt anyone can question their authority on the safe use, discharge and disposal of propane gas. In the end, its all up to the airsoft users. While almost everyone here would be so uptight about muzzle velocity, safety and the law.. it seems nobody cares it they inadvertently burn themselves, someone else or something down.. or turn pink from gas poisoning. Just because what I said may be unpopular doesn't mean it's wrong. While most other propellant gasses (R12, R22, HFC134A) will also burst their containers when exposed to heat, they don't burn. The Chinese manufacturers have not been totally honest about what they put into their airsoft gas canisters. and just because they have managed to slip propane by the proper safety agencies does not mean its actually safe. Cheap, yes. Safe? If any of you think the PERC is full of ######, who do you think you are to say otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I'm sure the green gas cans I've used have warnings about how to store them (ie not in direct sunlight and not above a certain temperature), just like most cans which contain propane/butane as propellants. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 While the PERC may not know about airsoft.. I doubt anyone can question their authority on the safe use, discharge and disposal of propane gas. In the end, its all up to the airsoft users. While almost everyone here would ne so uptight about muzzle velocity, safety and the law.. it seems nobody cares it they inadvertently burn temselves, someone else or something down. Just because what Isaid may be unpopular doesn't mean it's wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure if you asked an expert on flammable substances they'd tell you that carrying pressurised containers full of flammable liquids at high speeds, in close proximity to other such vessels, in a hazardous environment, is also an unsafe practice. we all do it though. In cars. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I would think those people would actually advise you to stop using "air soft guns" all together regardless of what powers the gun because it's always a safety concern. As people have said, the chemical composition of green gas is almost identical to propane except the perfume and lube. I once left a green gassed GBB mag in the sun for 10 minutes or so, and it got really hot when I noticed it, but it didn't explode. After it cooled down, it worked perfectly like before again. But you should always make sure you don't leave any gas canisters or gased GBB mags in the sun or any hot place. Link to post Share on other sites
Antagon Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Courtney Gendron Propane Education & Research Council <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What a sad...sad...life.. Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 While the PERC may not know about airsoft.. I doubt anyone can question their authority on the safe use, discharge and disposal of propane gas. In the end, its all up to the airsoft users. While almost everyone here would ne so uptight about muzzle velocity, safety and the law.. it seems nobody cares it they inadvertently burn themselves, someone else or something down.. or turn pink from gas poisoning. Just because what I said may be unpopular doesn't mean it's wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let's break it down: As a hazardous substance, propane should not be stored or used in applications that would allow its release to the atmosphere. Like a gas fired barbecue, or a blowtorch? There are other concerns regarding the container that it is stored in and whether it meets appropriate construction standards. Well, a cannister of green gas will already meet those standards in order to be sold. I'd say its a fairly safe bet that the magazines will also have those standards. If propane is stored correctly and in accordance with the instructions on the canister, it is safe. Assuming you treat a charged mag in the same way as a canister, it will still be safe. Finally, if the gun is exposed to fire or even just stored in a hot location, the pressures would increase and possibly cause a failure of the container, most certainly presenting a severe safety hazard. Using propane lowers the temperature at which this failure will occur, but using lower pressure gasses doesn't remove the risk, it just lessens it by a small factor. This, to me, reads like *albatross*-covering. It prevents you blowing your hand off through stupidity and then suing the Propane research council for telling you it was ok. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 What a sad...sad...life.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought maybe it was the guy out of King Of The Hill. Link to post Share on other sites
Gene Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Well, a cannister of green gas will already meet those standards. I'd say its a fairly safe bet that the magazines will also have those standards.If propane is stored correctly and in accordance with the instructions on the canister, it is safe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As much as I agree with you, my gas cans (for green gas, not my barbeque bottles) don't meet any safety standards. They have directions for safe use, but are not approved by any governmental agencies. EDIT: In the USA that is. Thanks Ghost_Rider for the clarificiation there. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 This, to me, reads like *albatross*-covering. It prevents you blowing your had off through stupidty and then suing the Propane research council for telling you it was ok. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly what I think too. If you ask any authority, they'd always try to tell you the safest thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Exactly what I think too. If you ask any authority, they'd always try to tell you the safest thing to do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Safest thing for them of course (so they can't be sued) Link to post Share on other sites
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