Docv400 Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 Could only find one UK shop selling g/box shims so searched elsewhere and found this place... Shim supplies. The heading says 8mm bores but the list includes 3mm bore shims... 3mm bore shims in 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5 + 1mm thicknesses. Between £1 and £2 for a pack of 100 shims (that's 100 of one size per pack) That's more than a lifetime supply for even the most addicted g/box stripper. Become the shim master for your team... Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 you even get a 20% discount if you order 30,000 shims. Link to post Share on other sites
Un_FriendlyFire Posted November 18, 2005 Report Share Posted November 18, 2005 We really need a call hissing sid button to ask him about these things. Do these actually work well? are they the right size for the gear mountings? are you SURE they work? sounds like a lot to go wrong imo Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 A shim is a shim, whichever way you look at it. The important dimensions are 1) the bore ( for a good fit on the gear spigot, which on my gears is 3mm...aren't they all?) And 2) the thickness. If you have a good selection of sizes then you can shim your gears up perfectly. They are engineering shims, which means they are the correct material and hardness to do what they're meant to do. "They do exactly what it says on the box" Those little packets you can buy from your Airsoft shop will be exactly the same, except about 10 times the price And you'd probably have to buy a few packets anyway to get the selection you need. Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 These popped through my letter box today, and as I had suspected, they are shims for shimming things. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Just to point out that there are 2 widths of shims; 6mm OD and 8mm OD. Given that there are several spindles in an airsoft gearbox where you CANNOT use the 8mm ones, I tend to use 6mm ones exclusively, just cos the job looks neater. Anyway, unless they do 6mm OD shims as well then you'll need to buy airsoft shims as well. In which case, errr.... it kinda defeats the object. They'll work fine but if they're only 8mm OD they won't work for a complete gearbox shim job (unless you're gonna bodge it). Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 They are 6mm O/D, exactly the same as the ones that were in the g/box when I opened it. Airsoft manufacturers wouldn't make their own shims, any more than they'd make their own screws/nuts/washers/wire/etc. It's all bought in from engineering suppliers. I've been pricing up miniature thrust bearings (for spring seats) today...£4.65 each, £3.40 each for 10+ And springs too. Just waiting for them to call back... People are far too keen to pay over the odds for stuff just because it's in a branded packet. My Father-in-law used to go the a Honda dealer for everything for his Accord. He'd willingly pay £13+ for a h/lamp bulb that'd cost less than half that from Halfords, same make/type just without the Honda sticker... I'm not poor/skint/tight, I just hate being ripped off, or paying extra for a label/brand name. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Sounds good then. I'd always recommend getting stuff like shims, springs screws, o-rings and screws from a local supplier rather than an airsoft retailer. I seem to recall that an anodised screw kit for my FZR600 was something like £25. I got 30-odd anodised screws from a local supplier for about £5.. Must admit, the "problem" with airsoft guns is that most of the springs and screws are dirt-cheap anyway. In a lot of cases it's not really worth hunting down alternative suppliers just for your own needs. You just buy summat like a silencer, spare mags or whatever, and tack a shim kit on the end of the order so you don't feel like you're being ripped off. Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 FZR600 HaHa! Another biker who thinks like me... I've spent 25+ years hunting down cheaper alternatives to filling the bike/car spares makers coffers. Try saying that after a few beers!! springs and screws are dirt-cheap anyway I've already junked the g/box casing screws in favour of some nice cad-plated 8-32 UNC screws and drilled/tapped the holes accordingly. I've got lots of other ideas bouncing around in my head still...so many jobs, so little time Link to post Share on other sites
jc_333 Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hey Doc...get it? hehe Would you have any pictures of the screws or of your gearbox? OE screws are ###### and the OE casing material is so weak. J HaHa! Another biker who thinks like me... I've spent 25+ years hunting down cheaper alternatives to filling the bike/car spares makers coffers. Try saying that after a few beers!! I've already junked the g/box casing screws in favour of some nice cad-plated 8-32 UNC screws and drilled/tapped the holes accordingly. I've got lots of other ideas bouncing around in my head still...so many jobs, so little time <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hey Doc...get it? hehe Heydoc...Haydock...Haydoc, nope! Means nothing to me Can post some later. Not sure if my G/box is standard, it has the oiless metal bushings and the metal itself isn't like the really horrible monkey metal you get. It drills and taps OK. Self tappers are always a sign of the cheapest manufacturing process possible (after gluing) fine if you never disturb them... Link to post Share on other sites
EvOrAcEr Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 So what other internal upgardes are available at these great prices ? We have shims there. Bearings ? Springs ? Cylinders ? Ect. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Self tappers are always a sign of the cheapest manufacturing process possible (after gluing) fine if you never disturb them... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeedy. TBH, I just bought myself one of those "sampler" screw kits from a local supplier and now, whenever I remove self-tappers, I just rethread the hole and fit pukka screws. When I run out of one kind of screw (Usually M3s) I just go and buy another bag of 100. Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Would you have any pictures of the screws or of your gearbox? Front of my g/box with repair and holes countersunk for screws. It's stronger than new now. Inside view. The two screws hold the repair plates in place along with some Araldite. You can see the breaks, left of top screw, right of lower one. The screws. I used 8-32 UNC 'cos I can get them from work. Metric would do too, 3mm as Sid said (Sid said...sounds like the start of a tongue twister) You'll need a 3mm tap to thread the holes in the l/h half. And a countersink bit to c/sink the holes in the r/h half. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Just to mention something about preventetive maintenance here:- Although gearboxes only usually fracture after 100s of thousands of rounds it's well worth (at some point, while you've got the gearbox in bits to change the bushes or whatever) dremmeling or filing the inside corners of the cylinder-window in the gearbox shell so they're rounded off. Link to post Share on other sites
EvOrAcEr Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Nice will do Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 dremmeling or filing the inside corners of the cylinder-window in the gearbox shell so they're rounded off. Ah yes, getting rid of 'stress raisers', takes me back to my apprenticeship...you're not an Aircraft Engineer as well Sid? The damage is from a high speed encouter with a tree-trunk by the previous owner, hence this topic; http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...showtopic=38374 (sorry, but my code buttons don't work and doing it manually doesn't either?) Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ah yes, getting rid of 'stress raisers', takes me back to my apprenticeship...you're not an Aircraft Engineer as well Sid?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oddly enough, when my missus asked me what I was doing, while I was filing a gearbox the other day, I did tell her the story about Comet windows. Alas, no. My engineering has always been ground-based. I applied to get into British Aerospace straight out of school. They turned me down (their loss) and I decided to put myself through college. I did electrical engineering although you need to be a jack-of-all-trades to get anywhere in industry these days. Since then I've been bodging and fettling all manner of things, mechanical and electrical. Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Alas, no. My engineering has always been ground-based. I applied to get into British Aerospace straight out of school. They turned me down (their loss) and I decided to put myself through college Believe me Sid, you were lucky. I've been with BA(rse) for 27+ years, straight from school and I've had enough. Even a mediocre* plumber/electrician/gas fitter/etc is paid/earns more than me. (* and by that I mean one who is below average at their job, not that they're all mediocre) I've had some good fun and got a lot out of it, even did three years as cabin crew on longhaul at the end of my apprenticeship 'cos there weren't any vacancies in engineering, but it's no fun anymore. They've sold off/shipped out just about all the support facilities (machine shop/plating plant/welders/painters/sand blasters/etc) I used to be able to get just about anything made up/machined/plated/welded/blasted/etc...not any more. If you want an idea of what you missed, have a look here... AirMech Site.. Its a forum for Airline/aircraft Engineers. This is just the BA(rse) section...the other 30 or so airline sections read pretty much the same I've given myself a year to find something else.... Airsoft Technician, mmmmm sounds OK! Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Might as well... If the VCRB goes through then you should have a lot of work fixing old guns as no one will be able to get new ones. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 dremmeling or filing the inside corners of the cylinder-window in the gearbox shell so they're rounded off. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Be careful when you talk about that! A certain moderator locked a thread about reinforced boxes, because the original poster "did not emphasize that he is not going to upgrade past forum limits". Their opinion was that a reinforced box or filing the corners is only needed with springs that produce >1J energy. What a load of BS if you ask me. I'm putting an M90 in my AEG as soon as I get the parts and the box is going under a needle file in the process... Many years ago I was working at a retailer, and together with another upgrade/service tech we stole a certain innovation from aircraft technology and sent the idea about rounded corners in mech box windows to Classic Army. You might have noticed that they have had round corners for a few years already. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 Well said Sale. Fatigue failure will occur eventually with sharp corners like those, whatever the spring strength is. How long it takes is dependent on several things...spring strength, piston weight, cylinder head (rubber insert or not), ROF, quality of the gearbox metal, etc. A friend of mine has given me his old (6+ years) TM M4A1 to upgrade. When I got it apart I checked the corners...sure enough, all 4 had hairline cracks, between 2mm and 6mm long. His gun is totally standard. Basically it's just a poor design in the first place. It happens, even NASA/Boeing/Airbus and others still get it wrong occasionally,...that fact has kept me on my toes for the last 21+ years Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I've also seen V2 gearboxes crack on stock guns, although it's very rare. And these so called "reinforced" gearboxes I've seen fail even with mild upgrades, because they left the sharp corners in the design. The boxes are porous pot metal so there's no relying in the quality of that. Usually I defend Marui against people who bash them for weak materials, but you have to see that they were specified for a certain muzzle velocity, and they have to make them hard to upgrade because of ASGK. A mate of mine had a completely standard TM AK in active use for almost four years before we first opened the gearbox up for maintenance. They work nicely out of the box until we tinker with them, except for these guns that might break the gearbox. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I always think it's funny when people say "How often should I lubricate my gearbox". Now, I'm not gonna bother arguing over it but, for all practical purposes, the correct answer is just "Whenever you open your gearbox up." The simple answer is that something else will probably happen to make you open your gearbox up long before it really needs regreasing. It's the same thing with filing gearboxes. I won't make a point of taking a new gun to bits just to do this work but, sooner or later, the gun will end up with new bushes, shims, spring, gears or whatever and, when that happens, it's just good practice, IMO, to spend a few minutes doing the corners of the gearbox window. I also attack the various casting marks with a dremel as well, just to be on the safe side. Link to post Share on other sites
Docv400 Posted November 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 The trouble is Sid, grease doesn't stay where it's put for long. It gets thrown from the gears and squeezed out of bushings until there's not much left to do it's job. Having said that though, I do think some people are frightened into paying over the odds for upgraded bearings/bushings they don't neccessarily need. Simple bushes are more than adequate for the loads on them as long as they are kept well lubed. I'm going to put some tiny holes through my guns sides so I can drip some ptfe based lube directly into the bushes/gears with an old blunted syringe, after every time it's used. AEGs don't get maintained regularly because most owners are afraid to open them up. The are machines, and all machines will last longer and perform better with regular maintenance. Link to post Share on other sites
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