lexsis Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 G&P CQBR vs Classic Army M15A4 C.Q.B, which of these is best? C&P comes with a red dot scope, and free float RIS (what is free float anyway?) and higher fps. besides that, Im wondering which has better internals? thnx Link to post Share on other sites
8 Ball Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 This is all from what has been discussed many times over many forums, however, not personal experience. I love G&P, I would chose that myself because of the metal body and Tacpoint. However, there has been a repeated number of CA bashers claiming that CA has made amazing improvements and can be considered better than TM. I myself HATE CA, but these recent reports have been changing my mind. G&P guns have repeated problems with their nozzles and tappet plates (the tappet plate is considered to be a problem because of the bevel gear, but has not been proven. The tappet plate and nozzle, as of last report, needed to be replaced, so there's an automatic extra payment to an already $400 gun. Also, the higher FPS is not always good and (to be user friendly) should be replaced with a spring to bring it under 328fps. However, if you live in another country, and you haven't yet gotten to change the spring, and must absolutly, with no question because your life is on the line, must play before you get the chance to change your spring to a UK friendly spring, then this may cause some problems internally. If you happen to dry fire your gun accidently in this life saving, un-UK friendly game, you could risk breaking many parts. This isn't saying that a larger spring WILL destroy your gearbox, I'm just saying, higher FPS is not neccessarily always good. Link to post Share on other sites
muiman62 Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 This is all from what has been discussed many times over many forums, however, not personal experience. I love G&P, I would chose that myself because of the metal body and Tacpoint. However, there has been a repeated number of CA bashers claiming that CA has made amazing improvements and can be considered better than TM. I myself HATE CA, but these recent reports have been changing my mind. G&P guns have repeated problems with their nozzles and tappet plates (the tappet plate is considered to be a problem because of the bevel gear, but has not been proven. The tappet plate and nozzle, as of last report, needed to be replaced, so there's an automatic extra payment to an already $400 gun. Also, the higher FPS is not always good and (to be user friendly) should be replaced with a spring to bring it under 328fps. However, if you live in another country, and you haven't yet gotten to change the spring, and must absolutly, with no question because your life is on the line, must play before you get the chance to change your spring to a UK friendly spring, then this may cause some problems internally. If you happen to dry fire your gun accidently in this life saving, un-UK friendly game, you could risk breaking many parts. This isn't saying that a larger spring WILL destroy your gearbox, I'm just saying, higher FPS is not neccessarily always good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> CA has really improved their products. the only complaint i can say for the CA m15cqb is that the wiring is horrid. It's very hard to put the battery into the crane stock. Also, the wiring in the gun is easily pulled out of it. I've accidently pulled it out at least 5 times and I dont even pull that hard! Link to post Share on other sites
FragileMachine Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 What exactly is the problem of the tappet plate, bevel gear, and nozzle? Nozzle - is the problem that it's metal? or something more drastic? Tappet plate/bevel gear problem - could you elaborate? Link to post Share on other sites
8 Ball Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I couldn't tell you the problem with the nozzle. I was unaware of the problem with it until one day, everyone just started saying "change the nozzle, it's bad." I believe I read once that it's too big, and when pulled back all the way, doesn't always load the bb, but I can't remember. The tappet plate breaks a lot. The fact is that it's a really cheap tappet plate and will break no matter what. The idea that's going around is that it's not just the cheap tappet plate, but the bevel gear doesn't improve it, because the nub that pulls back the tappet plate is off set and pulls it too far and breaks it. I would assume this idea comes from the idea that the nozzle doesn't pull back all the way, so they might want to pull back the tappet plate farther to make up for this? I don't know where the bevel gear idea came from, but it's never been proven. However, it is something that I would keep in the back of my mind when ordering/if you order G&P and can't stop breaking tappet plates. Link to post Share on other sites
PILMAN Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Yes i'm very interested in the problems as well since I own a G&P M4. I had heard they fixed the problems but from a thread I started I was told the same problems occured in newer models as well. Is this a must replace thing before I shoot my gun or is this something I should worry about later when something breaks? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Tef Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 G&P i say, your are in US, higher fps matters not, much nicer metal body than CA, wiring is much nicer also. Link to post Share on other sites
paradigmsk8er Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 ive read the issue with the GP nozzle is that once you start changing things around, it is too small (at least the opening for the air, it was made this way to achieve the hihg velocity) and as such you run into problems there, as well as with loading. but im completely unsure as im not a GP owner. i think i might jump on the GP, i have a freidn who complained that he really didnt like the CA version of the crane stock compared to some of the aftermarket (namely the GP he was using lol) versions, because the CA felt flimsier IN COMPARISON. not to say the CA is a bad gun at all ive only heard stellar reviews of it. my only other reason for choosing the GP would be the replica aimpoint comes with haha. frm what ive read you can keep everything stock and be fine for a while, but i would replace the tappet plate and nozzle to be safe and be done wiht it. Link to post Share on other sites
FragileMachine Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Well, as an owner of a G&P M4 myself, I haven't really seen these problems. Let me run through the problems I've seen: Tappet Plate: So it broke. But not while I was firing the gun. I broke it when I was inside the gearbox. My own fault. I pulled the thin part too much and snapped it myself. This says nothing about whether or not the G&P tappet plate actually has a problem, or if the problem arises from the bevel gear. I also don't know why you guys are talking about the bevel gear. It's the sector gear that has the nub that engages with the tappet plate. The bevel gear engages with the pinion gear of the motor. I've seen replaced it with a Area 1000 tappet plate and encountered no further related problems. Feeds well. Personally, I don't see what's so weak or wrong with the G&P plate. Seems just like all the other aftermarket one, except it's red and slightly textured. Nozzle: While being metal, I have have no problems with it at all. It loads fine, it doesn't seem like the opening is too small, etc. No problems. The one thing that did happen was that once the hop-up in my barrel got screwed up, so it caused EXTREME jams. The nozzle could not push the BBs past the hop-up bucking because the bucking had scrunched up and blocked the opening. Instead the nozzle was forced back inside the mechbox before it could complete its cycle, causing huge shreeching noises, and damaged the piston a bit. But because the G&P piston is high quality, although damaged, it wasn't as bad as you might expect. Piston is still completely usable even after this disaster. Again, not the nozzle's fault. If the nozzle were plastic, I'm sure it would have broken in this jam actually. After this jam fiasco, I also inspected the tappet plate (Area 1000) and I did notice something. The plate (the triangle part that engages the sector gear nub) was somewhat crushed a bit in at the back. This may be what you're talking about - the nub on the sector? (not bevel?) gear being in the wrong position, pulling the tappet plate too far back and breaking it. Then again, this crushed bit might be because of the jam, which was drastic, too. I can't be sure. However, I know with this "crushed" tappet plate (it's not broken), everything seems to be shooting fine again. Take this observation as you will - perhaps indeed the sector gear nub is offset, or maybe not. Other problems: 1. G&P hop-up housing may need some filing, so it can achieve the hop-up arm can achieve a smooth bounce without sticking to the sides of the housing. 2. The cutoff lever needs to be replaced with say, a TM one. G&P got the wrong dimensions, causing semi-mode to act as a safety sometimes. Annoying. 3. Arcing of the connectors seems to be common: Make sure to check the connections and push them together so they make better contact. 4. Gears need lube and slight re-shimming. 5. Barrel is not that accurate compared to a TM barrel - I'd get a tightbore, but accuracy isn't super horrible either with the stock G&P barrel. But overall, I feel the G&P is the top choice for M4s. I prefer them over all brands right now. If you know how to tinker with the internals, you'll have a solid gun, much more so than if you tinkered with a CA, ICS, or G&G gun. TM guns are great, but they're just not upgraded, plus externals suck. Link to post Share on other sites
lexsis Posted December 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 thank you all for this info, its really valuable and will save me from a headache after I decide on which gun to buy. I sent 2 emails to redwolf asking about this problem and if they can make the modifications to the gun before they ship it to me....they have not answered, maybe they're busy due to the holiday. Im new to airsoft so I wont be opening my gun anytime soon so I will have to send it out to a professional to make the modifications. Link to post Share on other sites
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