Walking Wounded Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 the time is here, Billet Alloy V2 gearboxes are now available!!!! no more broken V2 gearboxes! http://www.andairsoft.com/preoraaexv2b.html Link to post Share on other sites
NamantH Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 damn... I wanna see one of those... thats insane. Link to post Share on other sites
Glenn Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I handled a proto when I was checking out the shop....farking amazing. Quality is absolutely top notch. Link to post Share on other sites
bigphish038 Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 wow..It costs more then a Systema drop-in with internals.. I guess it must be good :-D Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Eh, thats rather expensive. I havent had any problems with version two gearboxes yet. Yes i know they're flawed but id much rather spend 30 bucks to buy a brand new gearbox that will give me at least one hundred thousand rounds out of it than a box that will last "forever". Having said that, im really happy that someone is finally manufacturing a better gearbox. Here's hoping this box actually IS better. Link to post Share on other sites
sp00n Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Alloy is usually just a nice way of saying "pot metal". Replacing pot metal with more pot metal doesn't seem like its worth the trouble, especially for that price. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Alloy is usually just a nice way of saying "pot metal". Replacing pot metal with more pot metal doesn't seem like its worth the trouble, especially for that price. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what planet do you live on exactly its 6061/T6, you could drive a mack truck over it and it would survive without a hitch. Link to post Share on other sites
boomboomairsoft Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 does anyone actually plan on buying one of these? i wouldnt because IMO an mp5 isnt fit for a 250 GB, but maybe for those guys who own the guns worth over 1k? Link to post Share on other sites
Foxtrot Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Way over priced. For 250$ + a FTK, you're talking 500$ for a complete gearbox. Might as well buy 3 M150 gearbox's from Systema that are pre-built's Link to post Share on other sites
Walking Wounded Posted January 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 here in the north east , in the winter time shooting the fps we shoot every weekend means broken V2s if you play hardcore like we do you'll break at least a couple boxes in a winter, can you imagine not worrying about a broken shell? hundreds of times stronger than any box out there. as far as those systema complete boxes? they have untrained chimps shimming those things and if the gears don't go, the front still blows off....these boxes are not for the average person, it's for the person that wants the best out there, and by far the strongest. m130 in a built gearbox wired with just a grip and motor, in a freezer, trigger tied down, 2 9.6 3300 batteries run dead nonstop. how many systema gearboxes would it take to drain 2 batteries full auto? piece of mind is priceless. Link to post Share on other sites
boomboomairsoft Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 its a great new thing and it sounds like you really need one so go ahead and buy it, i know ill never NEED one, but maybe someday if they are a little cheaper,i just might get one. Link to post Share on other sites
Foxtrot Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 here in the north east , in the winter time shooting the fps we shoot every weekend means broken V2s if you play hardcore like we do you'll break at least a couple boxes in a winter, can you imagine not worrying about a broken shell? hundreds of times stronger than any box out there. as far as those systema complete boxes? they have untrained chimps shimming those things and if the gears don't go, the front still blows off....these boxes are not for the average person, it's for the person that wants the best out there, and by far the strongest. m130 in a built gearbox wired with just a grip and motor, in a freezer, trigger tied down, 2 9.6 3300 batteries run dead nonstop. how many systema gearboxes would it take to drain 2 batteries full auto? piece of mind is priceless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I play in the winter too dude. Only V2 gearbox's I've had broken ever are TM POS's ones. And im not sure where your getting your information on the systema boxs. At least, the new ones. So please, unless you've taken a tour of systema's factory, don't speak up about it. I've seen it before - via Wallace Lau. Peice of mind is me having 3 guns. Or for the price of these boxes, 3 drop in gearboxes. Link to post Share on other sites
Walking Wounded Posted January 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 i build guns every day, do you? i've seen systema products go from top notch to barely acceptable, this past summer i got an entire shipment of M130 springs that consistently shot 450 fps w/.25s, other properly marked springs simply break in half...have you installed a boreup lately? how's the seal? you right it's terrible, if you don't do certain tricks you'll never get good seal, i'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about systema, anyone can go to the factory, anyone can get systema certified, all it takes is a trip overseas. is this billet gearbox worth the 250.00 maybe not to you and that's cool, but this is one badass hunk of alloy, that'll take more than any other V2 Link to post Share on other sites
Screwschom Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Walking Wounded, since your a "Active Partner" at A&A Airsoft how should we know that what your saying isnt just marketing propoganda cow turds? Why waste your money with a systema FTK when Guarder FTK is nearly 1/2 the price and IMO to higher quality? Link to post Share on other sites
gooseman Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 what planet do you live on exactly its 6061/T6, you could drive a mack truck over it and it would survive without a hitch. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The following is a chart I grabbed from some metalurgy pamphlet. It shows the relative strength of various aluminums, and steels. ALUMINUM Alloy Tensile Designation Strength (psi) 6061-0 ( 18000 psi) 6061-T6 ( 45000 psi) 7005-T6 ( 51000 psi) 7050-T6 ( 83000 psi) 7075-T6 ( 83000 psi) STEEL Alloy Tensile Designation Strength (psi) 4130 annealed ( 81250 psi) normalized ( 97000 psi) high T temper ( 118000 psi) low T temper ( 236000 psi) My point being, 6061-T6 is not that strong BUT it is stronger than "pot metal". I would not dare say it's something you can run over with a mack truck and be confident that it will not deform Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Alloy is usually just a nice way of saying "pot metal". Replacing pot metal with more pot metal doesn't seem like its worth the trouble, especially for that price. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually it's not. In reality all aluminum you see (on bikes, rollerblades etc. etc. etc.) are aluminum alloys, because pure aluminum isn't a good metal for pretty much anything. Goes for titanium too. What I'd like to see is a gearbox made from forgings, like they make realsteel AR-15 receivers. A forged piece is even stronger than one that's been machined from a billet. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Walking Wounded Posted January 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Walking Wounded, since your a "Active Partner" at A&A Airsoft how should we know that what your saying isnt just marketing propoganda cow turds? Why waste your money with a systema FTK when Guarder FTK is nearly 1/2 the price and IMO to higher quality? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> lol, i am pimping what we've got for sale, but it's not junk. it's new and better than the zinc tripe that we have now, yeah it's expensive, and maybe not worth it for a lot of people, but i know that there's nothing worse than fracturing a gearbox in the middle of a game. and no i wouldn't drive a mack truck over it, maybe a bicycle. Link to post Share on other sites
NamantH Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 aluminum is alot higher grade then zinc... so saying that pot alloys are all pot metal is plain bullshite... but hey if you like talking like you know what your talking about... go ahead. Alloy means a mixture of metal. for instance, steel and copper made bronze, which is an alloy. Aluminum has been mixed with things to make a stronger alloy. What do you think race engines, jet airplains and other things of that nature are built using? Aluminum of varying degrees of strength. As I said... I would love to check one of these thigns out, but I have no inkling to spent 250 on one box, when I only have one v2 box in use However if you are looking for a review, I would take one, and show it off to the team I help run (wnyal.net) and the dealers that I have under my wing (airsoftny.com) Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 My point being, 6061-T6 is not that strong BUT it is stronger than "pot metal". I would not dare say it's something you can run over with a mack truck and be confident that it will not deform <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah, I know Nothing about machined metals. note: above frame is made of thinner metal, of the same grade aluminium as the gearbox, and is held together less firmly, and has held up to impacts over 5000joules (probably alot more, but thats what the weapon puts out so i'm sticking with that) that gearbox will probably start to fail at around 100,000lbs of pressure on top of it, there's NO WAY anything you do to it in any circumstances will damage it. The worse you could do is try to strip the threads. That being said, these guys are late, if this box was around back when top M60/249's were the only dog in town they could sell a ton of them to people converting. Link to post Share on other sites
Screwschom Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 That being said, these guys are late, if this box was around back when top M60/249's were the only dog in town they could sell a ton of them to people converting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> heh PGC FTW Link to post Share on other sites
dynamic_e Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I purchased one of these. Still trying to justify the cost. However, these are for high end tuners that want the most out of their gun. These are definately not for cheapies, or everyday arisofters. There are 2 clients for these boxes and the UK with it's 328fps limits isn't exactly a prime market for these 1) DM/Sniper players running 450fps+ in the cold semi auto(i've shattered a few boxes with my XXXFPS MOD0 2) SAW/high FPS/High ROF gunners. I am going to run XXXFPS at 40rps and these boxes should be able to handle the abuse of it all. If you are complaining about the cost, then these are not for you. They are a limited run of 100 gearboxes and are for high end users. Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with A&A or 6mmMilsim the guys that designed and built the box...just a high end user and tuner. BTW, the box dosent look anything like the pic on the A&A website. It's freeking nice. BTW2: SystemA boxes at $250 are total ######. If we are going dollar for dollars, you can build a superior box based with Guarder and Promethius bits for the same and have a much higher performance box. Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I am unsure of the details of this "new mechbox", but perhaps lets wait and see how it actually performs before we should comment. Its like the "new" autoshimming phoenix gears, I have seen 3 sets of gears all shat themselves. All the hype and it ended up being junk. I have seen stock V3 mechs break but some take a M150 at 700rpms and still survive. They are made of "pot metal". I have a set of OEM set of systema mechboxes that they used to produce in HK (said they rated only for M120s) and they haven't cracked at all. It has been operating in temperatures between 5*C to 25*C in rain and shine, shooting with an M150 spring. Perhaps, since then systema has decreased the quality of their products; their mechboxes have been breaking a bit, and their polycarbonate red pistons have been chipping and snapping, tapplets have been missfitting and their mechbox tolerances are off. Other manufacturers like G&P have also just recently had problems with their POM pistons being too brittle. Basically, what I am saying is, only time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites
MTHaynes Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hello All, Maybe I can add some information to this since I am the manufacture. First the gearboxes are made from a alloy – special thanks to the US defense industry for spurting the development of materials such as this. Before you ask we do not provide the alloy code at this time. The box is CNC machined from billets of this alloy. During the machining process more than ½ of the alloy winds up being cut away – shame considering how much I have to pay for a chunk of this stuff. The alloy is commercially available in the world market and is not restricted from export Second - The box itself is not a copy of a version 2 – It is a complete redesign from the ground up. All dimensions have been done from scratch. While the box does use many version 2 parts, the gear placement and tuning is different. Additionally several outside dimensions are also different. For example the rear spine on the gearbox is more than double the thickness of a standard version 2. You actually build the gearbox differently than you do a standard version 2 – don’t worry we provide instructions in English and you can use these steps in fine tuning other gearboxes. Yes the gearbox does fit in m16’s Third – Gear placement. Gear placement in every cast version 2 that we have looked at is well to be blunt off by more than a bit. This caused our engineers to bang their heads more than just a bit. They would scream “how can you honestly expect any of this stuff to survive given how far out the measurements are? “ My answer was “well they kind of do.” In summary the position of the gears has been derived from a mean average of gear types and manufactures to determine optimum position for wear and performance. The bearings in this gearbox are also pressed in – not dropped in like current. The net result is you will not get the bearing / bushing spin failure that you get in the standards box. We supply high end 7mm bearings with the box bearings are also replaceable by the user with some common tools. Lastly cost. These are not designed to be a replacement for the current. They are a performance part. Like wheels for your car you can spend a lot or a little. Its up to your budget and preference. If you want high end performance this is an option much like the PGC for the TOP 249. Do you have to replace the stock TOP 249 box? No you can keep it however if you want to up the anti it requires the PGC. Same applies to this product. Following are some costs for you to consider: PGC 249 gearbox in HK (if you can find one) = $230 Gunkultre ProGear (Polished progear) fit with 7mm bearings = $100 Polished JK built progear with reinforcing straps in JK (dynamic_e will have to provide the link for this one – I don’t have it) = $200 This gearbox - 6 MilSpec CNC billet fitted with 7mm bearings = $250. Again its not for all, but if you are building for best (aka you are the guy that uses a real Aimpoint, ACOG, Eotech or uses an ARMS SIR rather than the ICS) you have found a new toy to add to your pride and joy. Last couple of things that kind of bugged me about this thread – not trying to get in a fight but well I have to get it off my chest. I noticed that almost all the folks that had an issue with cost were from the United States . FYI this Product was designed, tested, funded, manufactured and distributed in the United States. Yes I could probably shave $$$ if I shipped it off to china (nothing against china) for machining but I like to keep jobs at home. As a side note I have a company that is also partially based in the UK. Those jobs are also kept home in the UK. Its an operating principle of my companies. We are in the defense industry. Why is the US always the first to complain about cost and the first to complain about Jobs disappearing to foreign soil. Sorry to all that had to read that just me on a soap box again sorry. Lastly to the guy who felt that casted Zinc pot metal is no different to CNC alloy – please do not become an engineer – Thanks much – Sorry all about that one too. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I noticed that almost all the folks that had an issue with cost were from the United States . FYI this Product was designed, tested, funded, manufactured and distributed in the United States. Yes I could probably shave $$$ if I shipped it off to china (nothing against china) for machining but I like to keep jobs at home. As a side note I have a company that is also partially based in the UK. Those jobs are also kept home in the UK. Its an operating principle of my companies. We are in the defense industry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not complaining about the price, I applaud you for being able to cnc a box from solid stock, AND R&D it at that cost, most people in airsoft dont understand how much time goes into machining stuff, and normal machine shop costs are in excess of $60/hr. I was running with the assumption you went the easy way and used 6061, hah I wish I remembered a bot but I remember a battlebot using a fancy military alloy aluminium on his wedge and he ended up shatterying every steel weapon that he faced >.> wildness. Me being curious, how far off were the original gearbox measurements? I know the holes are off on either side, I'm guessing the gear mesh distance was off quite a bit? Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I noticed that almost all the folks that had an issue with cost were from the United States . FYI this Product was designed, tested, funded, manufactured and distributed in the United States. Yes I could probably shave $$$ if I shipped it off to china (nothing against china) for machining but I like to keep jobs at home. As a side note I have a company that is also partially based in the UK. Those jobs are also kept home in the UK. Its an operating principle of my companies. We are in the defense industry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not complaining about the price, I applaud you for being able to cnc a box from solid stock, AND R&D it at that cost, most people in airsoft dont understand how much time goes into machining stuff, and normal machine shop costs are in excess of $60/hr. I was running with the assumption you went the easy way and used 6061, hah I wish I remembered a bot but I remember a battlebot using a fancy military alloy aluminium on his wedge and he ended up shatterying every steel weapon that he faced >.> wildness. Me being curious, how far off were the original gearbox measurements? I know the holes are off on either side, I'm guessing the gear mesh distance was off quite a bit? Link to post Share on other sites
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