GrandPa Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have looked everywhere and I havent been able to find anything that directly compares the G&G m14's to the TM m14's with running into a whole lot of specualtion. Does anyone know of any review giving an independant review of the 2 guns comparatively. I want to buy one but I am tired of the plastic that TM puts into there weapons. I have thought of just doing the same thing that Toy Club did and just build my own out of a real M14 stock and barrel etc. Anyways anyone have any kind of sight they know of I would be very happy to get it. Thanks Grampy Link to post Share on other sites
PolarBear Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Just the thread I was waiting for! You are asking for the two guns juxtaposed right? I'm in limbo about it, I don't know which way to lean, a nice comparative review would hit the spot. Link to post Share on other sites
GrandPa Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Exactly....I want a review that shows only the facts about the differances between the 2 of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Kov Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 I’ll do what I can. Let’s start from the inside and work our way up. On the inside the Marui has... well... stock Marui internals. Nothing bad, but nothing special either. It will do ok with a 9.6v battery, but if you put a bigger spring inside you are asking for it. Take a look at the inside here . The Marui has a version 7 gearbox which is something that is close to what a P90 has, but with some mods. While its not a shabby design, you will need to upgrade it if you plan to shove any large "over forum limit springs" into it. Here is what it looks like. As for the gears, they are the same quality as any other Mauri gun. Lube is usually ample on the inside, and everything runs smooth. Shimming is fine. The G&G is very different on the inside. Instead of the version 7 gearbox it has its very own specialized model. This specail gearbox actually has the feeding tube built into it, which is something that the Marui does not have. It is also extremely beefy and well reinforced, and will not need to be upgraded even for the most ridiculous springs. You can take a look at it here. If that is not enough, here is another angle. The internals are also of different quality. Durability aside, the G&G model has better internal- most notably the gears, piston, and piston head. While how good they are is up to debate they are a better build from a technical standpoint. Lastly, compared to the Marui gears, the G&G counterparts are actually larger, which means they can push larger springs more efficiently. Don't believe me? Here is a picture. Though it may run fune, there is also lack of lube on the inside. Shimming is fine. Other than these differences there are others. After working on both M14s I can tell you that the Marui is easier to put back together (gearbox speaking) while the G&G is not. The G&G model just has some badly designed springs. Furthermore, while in its stock form the G&G fires better than the Marui, its piston cycles almost at random on single shot (it will shoot and then wind back a little ways before stopping, meaning that there is more stress on the gears and piston). Unlike the Marui, however, the G&G M14's fire selector is made so that it can be turned and the spring decompressed without taking the gearbox apart or singling the rifle (which is how you decompress the spring on a Marui). The G&G trigger also requires a lot of force to pull back and takes some getting used to. Marui magazines are easier to stick in and have a nicer feel to them. The two are actually shaped slightly different. The G&G is on the bottom, and has a slit on the side, unlike the Marui. There are also currently no aftermarket magazines other than by G&G that will fit the G&G M14. The Marui has several. On the up side, you can get the G&G in a packaged deal with two magazines and free shipping. No such deal for the Tokyo Marui. Externally there is not much to talk about in detail... the Marui stock is lighter and not as well built (picture) while the G&G has an inferior method of connecting the bottom of the hand guard to the front end of the rifle (image here). The bolt covers are almost identical, but the G&G version is a little bit larger. Cosmetically there are more differences, but you can look those up. There are many threads about how realistic/unrealistic things on the outside are. But, Judging by your post, I figure you want to know about what’s on the inside instead of the outside. I think these are the differences that really matter to you. I don't think you care that Marui has a hole on the bottom of the stock while G&G doesn’t, or something as trivial as that (which is a true example, see it here). In the end it becomes user opinion. Honestly, if you have knowledge of how AEGs work, one is a better value for the money than the other souly on what you plan to do with it. Does adding lube in exchange for better internal parts make the G&G a better choice than the Marui? Does gutting out the Marui for better parts make it worth $60 less than the G&G? Its up to you. Hope this helps, and please don't flame, Kov Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 If you are asking which one to buy then id have to say TM for ever! It havent let me down yet and hopefully that wont happen anytime soon. In the mean time the finish of the TM M14 is rather perfect I must say. Link to post Share on other sites
gunner-airsoft Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 yes kov is right, about the wind back problem, it will not happen on semi, it will only happen when you crank the selector all the way to full auto, you know the selector is attached to the anti reverse latch, and seems when it is all the way to full auto it will disable the anti reverse latch. so just turn it slightly it will fire full auto fine. as for the gears the TM have a smaller spur gear.....seems weak enough to break, but a lot of manufacturer made the steel gear set for it already (and all cylinders, nozzels and everything), so tuning up should not be an issue. but I never found any upgrade parts for G&Gs.....If you really want to upgrade you need to fit in some VER 6 parts to it, and it is very very very difficult if you dont have the right tools. (lathing /milling) from my observation, the G&G one, the sector gear and the piston have 1mm more distance than TM, and I tried a lot of different brand of pistons on it and every pistons will break very easily.....(no matter systema, g&p, deep fire, marui or anything). and the size of G&G stock is bigger, the TM is slimmer. another note, G&G have a lot of parts made of steel, the gas block can be dissembled like the real one, and marui is one piece molded pot metal. overall, If you are not "POWER HUNGRY" and have a lot of $$ to spend, stick with TM. If you are asking which one to buy then id have to say TM for ever! It havent let me down yet and hopefully that wont happen anytime soon. In the mean time the finish of the TM M14 is rather perfect I must say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to post Share on other sites
Kov Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Great reply gunner-airsoft. I actually spent some time finding that the G&G M14 only did the partial wind back on semi auto rather than on fully auto. How? Well, the gearbox has a giant hole in the back, and will work fine independent of the body. I started a thread on it, and explained why G&G M14's experience a 10th bb that falls short. Here is the link to the topic Please ignore the people who started the topic into a "Which Brand is Best" war. Lastly, I am sure the G&G will take version 2 and 3 gears just fine. Its gearbox is a mix of everything out on the market. It uses a cylinder head like a P-90, nozzle like an AUG, and gears like any version 2 or 3. I have yet to try this, but I have heard that people had no trouble. I have a Prometheus max torque gear set which is larger anyway, it may actually fit the specs... but I am not sure since I don't want to take anything apart. Link to post Share on other sites
gunner-airsoft Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 First sorry to grandpa for hijacking your thread.... kov, yes it take normal ver 2/3/6 gears, aug nozzel, but thats it!! the outer dia of the cylinder head for G&G M14 is 22mm.....and P90 cylinder head is 23.5mm, you need to lathe the hell out to make it fit. and the G&G tappet plate is too filmsy, and some how flexible!! I think when the piston push out a great deal of air pressure out, the tappet plate and its spring are not strong enough to hold the nozzel if the output pressure is really high, it will blow the nozzel slightly backward and some air will go away!! (I did a lot experiment on this, and my guess seems to be correct), so I tried to use a TM P90 tappet plate spring and guarder ver 6 tappet plate. but it is a lot of thicker and longer!! so I need to remove a lot of plastic out from the plate, and a lot of mod on the sector gear and the right half of the gear box to make it works....also the TM p90 tappet spring need to be cut a few mm back. so kov if you want to upgrade (suppose you dont have the machines), change the gears and spring/ spring guide / nozzel will be fine, but leave the cylinder head and tappet plate original. about the promethus gears, the max torque one will make it really slow.... but It will probably fit, I tried the double torque up on the g&g already. 1 more thing to mention, try to change the hop up bucking from the original one to the SYSTEMA one. It will help increase the fps a bit. the original one is too filmsy and seems not too air tight..... Great reply gunner-airsoft. I actually spent some time finding that the G&G M14 only did the partial wind back on semi auto rather than on fully auto. How? Well, the gearbox has a giant hole in the back, and will work fine independent of the body. I started a thread on it, and explained why G&G M14's experience a 10th bb that falls short. Here is the link to the topic Please ignore the people who started the topic into a "Which Brand is Best" war. Lastly, I am sure the G&G will take version 2 and 3 gears just fine. Its gearbox is a mix of everything out on the market. It uses a cylinder head like a P-90, nozzle like an AUG, and gears like any version 2 or 3. I have yet to try this, but I have heard that people had no trouble. I have a Prometheus max torque gear set which is larger anyway, it may actually fit the specs... but I am not sure since I don't want to take anything apart. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to post Share on other sites
GrandPa Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Well!!! First no appologies are needed from Kov or Gunner you guys have been most helpful and I am finding your information very informative. I dont know why anyone would want to start flaming. This is exactly what I wanted. A complete step by step of the differances between the 2 makes. Your right Kov I dont care about the little differances at all. I want to know that when I plunk down the money that the gun I buy is going to be worth it to me. Performance wise I am wanting to upgrade which ever gun I purchase to around the 420-440 fps range limit. With as minimul a cost to me as possible yet still ensuring the gun will work properly. Thank-You guys for the information and by all means continue to educate me on these guns. Link to post Share on other sites
Kov Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Well, for the money you can go with either the Marui or the G&G if that’s your plan, pick the one you like more and then do from there. gunner-airsoft, thanks for the info, I was talking hypothetically on most of those things. What batch of G&G M14 did you get? Link to post Share on other sites
PolarBear Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 So, this is what I got from this. If you want higher power, go with G&G (yet has stricter upgrade options as far as gears and everything go because of the unique gearbox type) but if you want reliability go for a stock TM m14, because it has a weaker gearbox? (or just weaker internals?) Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 What a brilliant thread! I vote sticky. Link to post Share on other sites
Blastyman Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 So, this is what I got from this. If you want higher power, go with G&G (yet has stricter upgrade options as far as gears and everything go because of the unique gearbox type) but if you want reliability go for a stock TM m14, because it has a weaker gearbox? (or just weaker internals?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm not sure why you don't think the TM won't go high. I am well over 100 FPS more then forum limits with my TM m14 and it shoots realibly on stock gears and 8.4v battery still. Link to post Share on other sites
Kov Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Never been able to push anything over forum rules in a Marui gearbox (stock) without trouble later in its life. As a reference guide, a version 2 gearbox cracks under slightly over forum limits and a version 3 can take over forum limits + about 50fps. I imagine that the version that the TM has is a better build than a 3, but you are probably asking for it if you are pushing something ridiculous inside of it stock. What you should get from this thread is boiled down to, that in general if you plan to keep your gun stock or with minimal upgrades then the G&G is probably best for you, if you plan to go mid range upgrade and FPS speaking, go with the Marui, and if you plan to go into the lands of very high fps, then either can work fine. I actually read somewhere about a mate that actually found all the compatible parts within the G&G m14 (gear, nozzle, piston head, and everything speaking), but I can't remember where. I do know that he tried it out and found marui/aftermarket parts that will replace all of the G&Gs nicely, but until I can find it be warned that this is just an unreferenced mention. Link to post Share on other sites
freq88 Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 I have been able to go way beyond forum limits (+150) on stock gears and a 7.4v lipoly and have had no issues whatsoever. Neither the gears nor the motor seemed to have any problems pulling the spring. But have down tuned it since to US standard limits without any problems whatsoever. On some phillipino board they've been managing well over mine on full auto with stock gears on 8.4v for about 20,000rds before the spur gear broke. The TM M14 can fit up to a large 8.4v battery in the stock. Link to post Share on other sites
Kov Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 That’s great to hear, but the goal of this thread isn't to talk about what a person experienced but what it looks like on the inside. I am still new to the Marui internals of the M14 so I cannot tell you how long mine will last, but comparing them to aftermarket or other makers raises questions at least. Airsoft shop offers upgrades to over forum limits for $30 or so. However, these will crack any marui version 2 that comes their way and breaks the gears and bushings on most version 3s within 10,000 rnds. Even with all these facts, we could probably assume that you could push a G&G to the same limits and have the same if not better effects. Lets just not hijack this thread. Kov Link to post Share on other sites
hkmp5roxs Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Does the GG Soc 16 have this problem too? Link to post Share on other sites
vengecore Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 im not sure why there has ever been a debate over the m14. TM will always be better. especially over a third tier manufacturer like G&G. Link to post Share on other sites
hkmp5roxs Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 When does the TM Soc 16 come out? Link to post Share on other sites
PheonixZero Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Why are you asking that question here? do you WANT to get flamed? Look somewhere else for that info... Back on topic... I have a SOC16 and I know how G+G's magazines are setup differently, can Marui/Deepfire/G+P mags be fitted for the SOC16? I understand that it might involve cutting but I dont mind that.... Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Why are you asking that question here? do you WANT to get flamed? Look somewhere else for that info... Back on topic... I have a SOC16 and I know how G+G's magazines are setup differently, can Marui/Deepfire/G+P mags be fitted for the SOC16? I understand that it might involve cutting but I dont mind that.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> W/out some serious modification No. The Marui Compatable Mags have a different mag catch then the G&G. You would have to port a G&G mag catch to TM Mags. Side by side I'll take the TM again anyday. Aside from the fact that mine is decomissioned atm (needs new metal parts. I'm hard on them) the TM has everything I want. (Full Metal, Real Steel Size) My only true gripe about it is the plastic they use for their stock and hand guard is not good. For those of us in the US we can get a Wood Kit and a real M14 heatshield and replace the stock Marui one. I've done it and it feels much nicer. Having shot a Real M14 the G&G feels more like the real one but like i mentioned earlier its off in the demensions. Its actually wider then a real one and short by about a half a cm. Link to post Share on other sites
PheonixZero Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yeah, reason I ask is that I have a SOC16 on the way that I got with a sling, 2 mags, changed out to systema hopup, replaced internals and a general overhaul for $300 shipped to my door which aint a bad deal at all...and one that I can live with if I can modify the mags or get enough of the GG standards. I saw the post by someone else that had a picture showing the 2 mags side by side and I saw the different cut on the GG Vs. TM mag and yes I wouldn't know about the front part becuase I havent had a chance to deeply examine either. So what it just be that cut or what would I have to change about the front to make it work (TM cut to a GG) to make it work? I also noticed the Deepfire and G+P mags and was wondering about whether those would require more or less mods... Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Yeah, reason I ask is that I have a SOC16 on the way that I got with a sling, 2 mags, changed out to systema hopup, replaced internals and a general overhaul for $300 shipped to my door which aint a bad deal at all...and one that I can live with if I can modify the mags or get enough of the GG standards. I saw the post by someone else that had a picture showing the 2 mags side by side and I saw the different cut on the GG Vs. TM mag and yes I wouldn't know about the front part becuase I havent had a chance to deeply examine either. So what it just be that cut or what would I have to change about the front to make it work (TM cut to a GG) to make it work? I also noticed the Deepfire and G+P mags and was wondering about whether those would require more or less mods... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In addition to the cut you'd have to move where the mag's feeding lip is. I'm not sure that it would be as easy as cutting it. I think you honestly would be better off just buying G&G standards and using them. Link to post Share on other sites
Crispin1025 Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 TM, hands down. Several people I know have G&G's and they stink, some even sold them and went to TM's. Internals have been out of spec with standards, replacement OEM parts are hard to get, QC has been low, tigger pull is hard, internals have been ground to smitherines with minimal useage, one's hop up needed a nib, and he had to have his barrel replaced because it had rubber in it that couldn't be removed, another's trigger mechanism wouldn't work correctly, make that two people that I know that had trigger problems, just stay away unless you have a CNC in your basement. Go with the TM. And remember, this is from a US limit standpoint, the G&G's reinforced gearbox IS NOT WORTH THE HASSLE! Go with TM, I HIGHLY recommend them. Cheers, Daniel Link to post Share on other sites
Kov Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Crispin1025, you have another great example of “Someone I know, knew someone that…” Well I knew someone that told me Audi’s are made out of cheese Nice resurrection of a thread… UrPeaceKeeper is absolutely right, changing a Marui type M14 magazine to work inside of a G&G is a long and hard project that is not worth your time. Just go with the G&G low caps and bite the bullet. You may be lucky and find someone selling them second hand and in groups on some airsoft forum. Link to post Share on other sites
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