rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I have just read the review of the ICS armalite on the review section. I cant work out if its the best gun made or if there are serious problems. The gun sounds like it is everthing i want but then i keep thinking about the foregrip coming loose and the reviewer having to tape this up to keep it on. If i pay 250 + for a gun i dont want to be "TAPING" it. Also the colour and finish is a bit dubious. The CA version on the other hand is meant to be solid in looks and build quality. Can anyone who has fired these versions shed some light onto the above points please. I like CA's 1j power output and the sound of there build quality but i keep hearing that the ICS is a super machine internally. I know this is a repetive subject but please bear with me folks, money is tight and i need to buy an AEG that is the business. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Stevmaster Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I know how you feel i'm having the same problem, so far i'm edging towards the ICS due to the low price on zeroone at the moment and i like the idea of the forward assist ect. But i can't help but think how damn nice the CA one looks on the outside. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I have just read the review of the ICS armalite on the review section.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's up already? Holy cow, Arnie is some kinda superman. I only sent it to him about 6 hours ago! I wrote that ICS review. I )obviously) own an ICS M4 and I have access to a CA M15 for comparison. I gotta say, I could quite easily have written an "O mi GoDzOrZ, I lurv taht gun!!!111" review. I really do feel that my ICS M4 is a great gun. However, to be honest, it wasn't exactly love at first sight. The gun doesn't look particularly impressive and the fore grip isn't great quality. You're right about taping the foregrips. It shouldn't be neccesary. It's just one single strip of tape wrapped around the rear of the fore grip, so I can live with it. To be honest, it was a mate who owns a CA gun and tapes his foregrip that suggested I do it. Thing is, the fore grips might stay in place just fine but the spring on the delta ring is NOT as stiff as the one on a CA gun. All it takes is for the user to knock the delta ring backwards (on either gun) and the fore grips fall off and you're left with the battery hanging from its wire, which isn't easy to replace in the field. Taping the fore grip is a worthwhile safety precaution for any armalite, IMO. I won't lie to you about the colour. It is a bit odd. It's painted a sort of khaki colour. As I said, most of the time it looks dark grey but sometimes it looks green. When I got the gun it was a sort of matt finish. Now, after some use and polishing, it's gone a bit more glossy and I don't really notice it being green any more. It just looks dark grey. As I said in the review, though, it doesn't have the same immediate appeal as a nice shiny black gun. As I've said on a hundred different threads like this one. Basically, CA guns shoot a bit harder and ICS guns are easier to work on. Get either. You'll be happy with both. I bought the ICS gun because of the working forward-assist and the split gearbox. I love innovative stuff and the ICS M4 is the most innovative gun I've seen in years. Besides the Systema PTW, that is. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Hissing Sid, Do you reckon the ICS split gearbox would fit into a CA with no problems or do you think there would be significant tolerance problems. Your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 good suggestion tommygun, would be perfect if you could move the gearbox, great internals mixed with great looks. However i reckon with the split gearbox design this would be impossible. Any ideas sid? Link to post Share on other sites
vigilante Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 the only differences is CA is lighter, has a nicer color, and has a much better handguard. the ICS handgaurd is wobbly and made of a very cheap looking/feeling plastic Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 To be honest, I haven't took them apart side by side. I was going to for that review but I just never got around to it..... *stop* *rewind* *record* In short, No. The ICS gun has a slightly extended receiver. proportionally, it's all the same but the back part of the receiver is about 10mm longer. Looking at it I'm guessing it's to accomodate the gearbox and allow for the stock to be securely fixed. I'm guessing that the ICS gearbox might be a bit longer than the CA one, thus requiring the longer body. You've also got a potential problem with making the ICS spring-decompressor work with the CA fprward assist knob. I could go and measure my gearbox if you want, but it'll be after xmas when I next see my mate with the CA M15. If you want pic's of the ICS gearbox they sell them at Z1. [edit] The ideal solution, IMO, would be to fit a CA delta ring and foregrip and get used to the colour. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Hissing Sid, I had noticed that increase in rear body length on the ICS myself and just took it as an innacuracy on their part. Looking at your close up photos of the internals there does appear to be a significant gap between the rearmost part of the gear box and the rear inside wall of the receiver and even more so if you were to grind down that protruding bolt thread. This to me would indicate that it would be very similar in dimension to standard gearboxes and, therefore, may be compatible. As far as the decompressor goes then you could either forget it or cut into the inside wall of the bolt assist and bodge some kind of extension. Link to post Share on other sites
rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 So sid, you reckon the ICS is the one to go for, still like the black look of the ca but if the ICS is a better option then i will go with that. Oh by the way sid where do you play and do you have a team etc. Just away to start and a few mates and i are about to form a team. Link to post Share on other sites
rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 So sid, you reckon the ICS is the one to go for, still like the black look of the ca but if the ICS is a better option then i will go with that. Oh by the way sid where do you play and do you have a team etc. Just away to start and a few mates and i are about to form a team. Link to post Share on other sites
rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 So sid, you reckon the ICS is the one to go for, still like the black look of the ca but if the ICS is a better option then i will go with that. Oh by the way sid where do you play and do you have a team etc. Just away to start and a few mates and i are about to form a team. Link to post Share on other sites
rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 So sid, you reckon the ICS is the one to go for, still like the black look of the ca but if the ICS is a better option then i will go with that. Oh by the way sid where do you play and do you have a team etc. Just away to start and a few mates and i are about to form a team. Link to post Share on other sites
rclark304 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Sorry about the multiple posts conection is rubbish Link to post Share on other sites
vigilante Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 5 in a row... and you could of edited your last post Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I don't really buy the whole CA vs ICS thing so I won't recommend one over the other. If you just want to buy the gun and shoot it then maybe the CA gun is the one to go for. The way I look at it is that the ICS gun is offering you a bunch of extra features for free. You'd have to be really keen on the black paint job of the CA gun to trade all the extra features of the ICS gun for nice black paint. The fore grip isn't great though. The CA one is better. Whichever one you buy you will probably end up taping it, though, so it's not a big deal. I play at Annan and at Firefight in Glasgow (when I can be @rsed getting up early enough). I also have family and friends in NW England so I also play on some of the sites around Liverpool and Manchester. I don't really buy the whole CA vs ICS thing so I won't recommend one over the other. If you just want to buy the gun and shoot it then maybe the CA gun is the one to go for. The way I look at it is that the ICS gun is offering you a bunch of extra features for free. You'd have to be really keen on the black paint job of the CA gun to trade all the extra features of the ICS gun for nice black paint. The fore grip isn't great though. The CA one is better. Whichever one you buy you will probably end up taping it, though, so it's not a big deal. I play at Annan and at Firefight in Glasgow (when I can be @rsed getting up early enough). I also have family and friends in NW England so I also play on some of the sites around Liverpool and Manchester. I don't really buy the whole CA vs ICS thing so I won't recommend one over the other. If you just want to buy the gun and shoot it then maybe the CA gun is the one to go for. The way I look at it is that the ICS gun is offering you a bunch of extra features for free. You'd have to be really keen on the black paint job of the CA gun to trade all the extra features of the ICS gun for nice black paint. The fore grip isn't great though. The CA one is better. Whichever one you buy you will probably end up taping it, though, so it's not a big deal. I play at Annan and at Firefight in Glasgow (when I can be @rsed getting up early enough). I also have family and friends in NW England so I also play on some of the sites around Liverpool and Manchester. I don't really buy the whole CA vs ICS thing so I won't recommend one over the other. If you just want to buy the gun and shoot it then maybe the CA gun is the one to go for. The way I look at it is that the ICS gun is offering you a bunch of extra features for free. You'd have to be really keen on the black paint job of the CA gun to trade all the extra features of the ICS gun for nice black paint. The fore grip isn't great though. The CA one is better. Whichever one you buy you will probably end up taping it, though, so it's not a big deal. I play at Annan and at Firefight in Glasgow (when I can be @rsed getting up early enough). I also have family and friends in NW England so I also play on some of the sites around Liverpool and Manchester. Link to post Share on other sites
Hilts Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 If i pay 250 + for a gun i dont want to be "TAPING" it. Also the colour and finish is a bit dubious. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 2 quickies - I used a slice out of an old mountainbike innertube to secure my foregrip like a big fat black rubber band. It's a bit tight rolling it on and off (fnarr fnarr ) but it does the job a treat! I was thinking about invesing in an aftermarket delta ring kit but I wasn't sure about the fit. Also, I dont think theres anything wrong with the quality of the finish, just that it's a bit of an odd colour.... Took a bit of getting used to. Top marks to Sid for the review btw Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Also, I dont think theres anything wrong with the quality of the finish, just that it's a bit of an odd colour.... Took a bit of getting used to. Top marks to Sid for the review btw <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. I should stress that the actually finish on the receiver is excellent. The laser-etching is great quality and the paint is good too. It's just the colour that takes some getting used to. Link to post Share on other sites
Tommygunn Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Camo it! Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Camo it! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bah! I spent 6 months applying desert cammo to various bits of military hardware. This usually consisted of chucking buckets of beige emulsion paint over them. Seriously, I envy the artwork that goes into doing a pukka cammo job on a gun but they don't look terribly realistic to me. I dunno, maybe it's abnormal but I don't really have any desire to personalise my kit. Maybe I worked that out of my system with cars, years ago? Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I know how you feel i'm having the same problem, so far i'm edging towards the ICS due to the low price on zeroone at the moment and i like the idea of the forward assist ect. But i can't help but think how damn nice the CA one looks on the outside. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ICS is cheaper than CA over there? Hmm, I bought CA because it is cheaper (at some place) in the States. To summarize what Sid said, the three "features" ICS has, 1, split gearbox 2, working forward assisst button 3, cocking handle (he didn't stress this, but on a CA M15, the cocking handle does not open the ejection port cover) 4. newer stock design For CA: 1, good tight forgrip (I really don't think anyone "needs" tape here) 2, good black color 3, slightly more powerful 4, one piece barrel So, I don't think ICS is giving you more features for free, it merely gives you different features at the expense of other (same is said for the CA). The decision is yours. Link to post Share on other sites
bolter9 Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Bah! I spent 6 months applying desert cammo to various bits of military hardware. This usually consisted of chucking buckets of beige emulsion paint over them. Seriously, I envy the artwork that goes into doing a pukka cammo job on a gun but they don't look terribly realistic to me. I dunno, maybe it's abnormal but I don't really have any desire to personalise my kit. Maybe I worked that out of my system with cars, years ago? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> has anyone seen teh RIS model ICS M4? I'm guessing it'll solve poor handguard finish. Regarding weak delta ring spring, and taping the handguard- I had this same problem on my RAP4/M4RAM[/ur] (paintball M4 replica), seems to be a common problem on replica M4s? I'm on the fence between the CA and ICS M4s as well....seems like some people really like the finish of ICS, and others don't- it's kinda hard to guage it by pictures, since it tends to look a bit different each time I see a review! I'll likely only be able to decide when I see these guns side by side at a dealer. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 RAP4/M4RAM (paintball M4 replica), seems to be a common problem on replica M4s?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> To digress slightly, did you know that The RAM company is owned (as far as I understand it) by the same people who own Classic Army? I think they go by the improbable name of Ying Fuk Industries. It's been a while, though, and this is all a bit hazy. The RAM M4s were built out of early CA M4 parts. If you thought the RAM M4 was good then the current CA M15s are excellent. If you thought the RAM M4 was cr@p then, ummm, the current CA M15s are still a lot better. The paint job on the ICS is a bit of a mountain-out-of-a-mole-hill. Sure, it's a weird grey colour but it's a realistic colour. Real steel M4s are not black. Equally, the one piece barrel of the CA gun can only really be seen as a benefit if the ICS gun was any less solid. As far as I understand it, the 2 part barrel on the ICS M4 is actually designed to allow you to alter the length in order to fit stuff like different handguards and M203s easier. Link to post Share on other sites
bolter9 Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 To digress slightly, did you know that The RAM company is owned (as far as I understand it) by the same people who own Classic Army? I think they go by the improbable name of Ying Fuk Industries. It's been a while, though, and this is all a bit hazy. The RAM M4s were built out of early CA M4 parts. If you thought the RAM M4 was good then the current CA M15s are excellent. If you thought the RAM M4 was cr@p then, ummm, the current CA M15s are still a lot better. The paint job on the ICS is a bit of a mountain-out-of-a-mole-hill. Sure, it's a weird grey colour but it's a realistic colour. Real steel M4s are not black. Equally, the one piece barrel of the CA gun can only really be seen as a benefit if the ICS gun was any less solid. As far as I understand it, the 2 part barrel on the ICS M4 is actually designed to allow you to alter the length in order to fit stuff like different handguards and M203s easier. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep I knew that the RAM owed some of it's roots to Yick Fung/CA- but didn't know to what extent. I really liked my RAM (it was stolen a couple of months ago), but in some ways the technology hasn't fully matured. It's a high-maintenance marker and (at least previous versions) didn't have the range of a .68 cal paintball. However, build quality was generally good (not as good as a real AR-15.M4), but they hold up fine. Finish was nice out of the box, but scraped up quite easily. For a mil-sim paintball player, the RAM is a heck of a lot of fun- as long as you can find a field that allows them, and don't mind having a marker that shoots half as far as everyone else's. Since I mainly use Tippmann mil-sims, the RAM was more of a novelty- and now that it's gone, I'm considering replacing it with an airsoft M4, since it's a better replica. Link to post Share on other sites
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