PlayerOneVsTheWorld Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I like this subject so much I've started an entire thread about it! I'd like to know about the practical use of gas masks as face protection in games. Not just S10s and the like either; primarily I want to find out about half-face respirators. I know there are some out there - but I don't know how useful they would be. A couple of questions, then: -Military/real combat use half-face respirators: do they exist? -Do any of you use a gas mask as protection? -If anybody has an idea, what the hell is a 'Canon' gas mask? Problem is finding a half-face respirator I could use with goggles that looks good - most civilian use ones are bright blue and the like. Plus, some may prove to be very flimsy; a half-face respirator constructed from S10 rubber material would be great, but I doubt any exist... If you know something, please post Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Carson Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I have a friend that has a Military S10 Respirator, He sometimes uses it for airsofting. Looks really good at night when you can old just make out a person. Problem is, they can get a bit hot. Link to post Share on other sites
smores Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 All military protective masks (they're not actually "gas masks" since they protect against nerve agents and other things other than gas) are designed to be worn for days at a time in combat. They are not comfortable, they get very hot, and you can't aim your weapon well with them on. In the U.S. Army they train you to fire your weapon using the Night/NBC aperature (large hole) on the M16 sight, and you hold the rifle at a 45% angle, because that's the only way you can shoulder it. It's barely accurate with a real rifle, now think about an airsoft gun with hop-up. Also... it doesn't do any good unless you get the protective mask carrier to go on your leg, so you can store it when you're not wearing it like a REAL soldier! Link to post Share on other sites
AqualungJM Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 A military gas mask with a Kevlar helmet would look freakin' awesome! Don't most military gas masks have goggles installed in them? Link to post Share on other sites
Coop Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 yes... and most of them are not certified to take BB hits. DO NOT WEAR GAS MASKS AS YOUR ONLY MEANS OF PROTECTION AGAINST BB'S! Link to post Share on other sites
CountDoom Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I love that, like when our Destroyer battleship crashed into an little Isle of Wight ferry. The ferry was only scratched accross the bow while the destroyer needed months of repair!! Why doesnt the military make them as resistant as some work goggles i bought from the DIY store yesterday that stand to pointblank range of my VSR with .25 bbgs! Letts face it you would be pretty ###### if a richochet hit your lense while you were in a cloud of nerve agents!!! Am i missing something?? Link to post Share on other sites
PlayerOneVsTheWorld Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I'm aware of all the problems with full-face military masks - so I'd basically decided against them. Smores definitely has some good points to deter me from using one Are there any known half-face models used in combat? Ones that allow the user to wear goggles too? Link to post Share on other sites
pace Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 They do look good, but in airsoft are really only for show, not really worth money perticuly after you've spent more time and money on making them safe to use, As for the MOD making the lense more resistant, whats the point?! if its hit with a enough force to shatter it, in the real world you got more to worry about then gas really, The actual NBC suit is only light poly cotton nylon affair as well, with a bit carbon in the middle, like the gas mask its primary goal is to keep nerve agents out, body armour keeps ballets and other things out, Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Just in case you're interested - I use an S10 for urban skirmishing - have done for ages. The S10 suits me fine. It NEVER fogs up, it is comfortable (once you get used to it), it's still easy to aim your rifle with a suitable RDS, and it's saved a friend's life before now - literally! He certainly thought it was the best £30 I'd ever spent. I have tested the lenses and they're fine for anything 1 Joule or below. Testing involved shooting the lenses all over with close range upgraded full-auto fire. Lenses can degrade and become brittle with age, atmospheric and UV exposure, so TESTING IS ESSENTIAL. I personally won't let people use them skirmishing when I am marshaling, unless I know the mask in question has passed testing. I've seen some half-face masks on the ScrewFix direct website, as well as a full-face (full-vision) 'gas-mask' that IS safe for Airsoft. Is THIS the sort of thing you are after? Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Are S10 lenses changable then? If so, I may have just found my AG2005 CQB face protection Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 They're not really changable. They are after all, sealed for a very good reason You can get lenses that 'snap' over the existing lenses though (rare & pricey). There is also a variant made with what are termed "Ballistically Reinforced Lenses", but as far as I am aware they are exceptionally rare, very expensive and reserved for specific users (usually Special Forces and those at increased risk of 'sharps' damage). Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hmmm...new ones cost loads, and new ones can't be guaranteed... Out of interest, where did you get yours, R22? Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 http://www.exarmy.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 A couple of questions, then: -Military/real combat use half-face respirators: do they exist? -Do any of you use a gas mask as protection? -If anybody has an idea, what the hell is a 'Canon' gas mask? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This 2nd question intrigues me a bit. I've read some Tom Clancy type novels where soldiers are wearing half-mask gas-masks. The thing is, modern warfare being what it is, most gas is pretty nasty stuff. It's not just an asphyxiant. It's an irritant and a nerve agent as well. This means that simply allowing you to breath, as a half-mask would do, would be very little use to a combat soldier who would soon be blinded and itching like crazy anyway. Sure, it'd be better than nothing and it might keep you alive if you were hiding in your basement but that's not really what we're talking about, is it? So, no. There are no half-masks in combat use with the military. To digress slightly, you can buy a thing called a turtle-neck which is a neoprene sleeve designed to keep your neck and lower face warm when you ride a motorbike in winter. You can buy them from most motorbike accesory shops. I noticed that Vin Diesel and a bunch of other cops are wearing them in one of his movies. Apparently this is true to life. Guys who might, later on, be on under-cover assignments do sometimes wear these facemasks (or just bandanas) to cover their faces so they won't be recognised if they're seen taking part in overt raids. In a similar theme, I bought a Fog City face mask. It's designed for pushbikes but is a pretty cool alternative to a shemagh for skirmishing with goggles. Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 The problem with the "turtle-neck" pieces and shemaghs, is that they divert your breath upwards. This steams up glasses FAST. As Sid mentioned above though, if you know a motorcycle shop near you, check out the "Fog-City" product. It is a VERY effective transparent fog-proof self-adhesive layer that you stick to the inside of your goggles. These things almost NEVER steam up and cost just over a tenner. Money well spent, if you can find the one model that will fit Airsoft goggles Haven't seen push-bike goggles made by them though. Not sure they'd be Airsoft-Safe anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
8h3eZy Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 sheeze... how do you get gas masks to work against airsoft guns - if that? I tested mine against my frkn' TM M9 and it shattered like candy glass. My advice is don't use a gas mask while airsofting... chances are 99% you'll get your lenses all fogged up, considering no comfort at all,, and you can't even aim your weapon. Plus if you wanna take your chances with the gas mask- airsofting, you better close your eyes, because if the bb hits the weak point of the lense, it will shatter and you'll probably lose that eye from all the glass coming back at you. Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hence... ...TESTING IS ESSENTIAL. I personally won't let people use them skirmishing when I am marshaling, unless I know the mask in question has passed testing... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sounds like you were unlucky to have a really weak one. You did the right thing and tested it before trusting it. Mine withstands everything and they never fog up (due to the integral nose/mouth guard). Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Haven't seen push-bike goggles made by them though. Not sure they'd be Airsoft-Safe anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah... I'm on about the Fog City breath masks. they look a lot like a turtleneck. Incidentally, I never had much of a problem with a turtleneck on a bike. As long as you breath through your nose it's fine. It's only if you try to breath out through your mouth that the things get steamy. Having said that, my current Bolle goggles don't seem to steam up at all due to exhaled breath. I reckon it'd be a different story with goggles which didn't seal properly or, even worse, any kind of shooting glasses though. Link to post Share on other sites
smores Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 The M-40 protective mask has removeable lenses... I hope you realize that there are no "half-face" masks. Many chemical/biological/nerve agents have severe effects on skin, such as blister agents. You want your mouth, nose, and eyes to be COMPLETELY sealed from these agents, since they are the most sensitive to them. These masks are used with hoods, and if in a high MOPP (Mission Oriented Protective Posture) level, you will be wearing a special MOPP suit (special BDU's that protect against agents) including rubber overboots and gloves. These devices are meant to save your life for a short period of time, and were not designed to be the most comfortable. You cannot wear a helmet properly with these masks on, as they cover your chin. The helmet strap goes under your jaw, and is not the most comfortable to be running around with. Also, if you want them to work and be comfortable, you better be clean shaven. I don't know why anyone would want to use a protective mask in an airsoft game, unless for some reason there would be CS gas or some sort of riot-control gas in the area. These items severely limit your peripheral vision as well as obscure your normal vision. Imagine a dirty, dusty windshield with no wiper fluid. Also, if you wear glasses, forget about wearing a protective mask, becaue you need special inserts. I have them for the current Army-issue mask (I'll get a pic for you ) Anyone still want to run around all day with one of these things on? EDIT: Here is a pic of the NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) glasses and mask insert. The black piece goes inside the mask's lenses, and then the white part in the middle slides inbetween that middle black piece. Not the best, but at least you will be able to see! I didn't get these until week 7 of training, so I had to do lots of tactical movement with my HORRIBLE nearsightedness... (like I said you can't wear regular glasses in these masks as they break the seal...) Link to post Share on other sites
Slugster Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I dont use a military gas mask, I use the gas mask painters use to paint cars, use different chemical and stuff. It might be called a chemical mask i dont know it still looks cool. I use a black balaclava hood wit the eye holes, google and the gas maskor whatever its called. Link to post Share on other sites
PlayerOneVsTheWorld Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Yeah, I realise that the gases NBC masks are designed to protect against are suitably nasty to warrant protection of the entire face - though I wasn't sure if there weren't any half-face variants just to reduce breathing problems. Perhaps I was being stupid; I suppose there is no need for half-face masks in real combat. R22, the masks you posted are certainly similar to the ones I am currently looking at - I'd like to try some of them out, but I know there will always be something niggling at the back of my mind that they aren't really combat realistic at all... The only other options for lower face protection aside from gas masks seem to be things like the neoprene sleeves, balaclavas and shemaghs; ideally I'd take a gas mask any day for its higher protection level and ultimately better look (I think). I guess it comes down to: are there any gas masks that allow the user to wear goggles that may be used in real combat? From what people have said here about the dangers of real-life nerve agents and so on, I guess the answer's no. Link to post Share on other sites
boxer1 Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Dont use a military respirator, its pointless, it weighs more and you see less. somebody earlier in this thread mentioned wearing one with a helmet, it aint gonna get you far in airsoft mate, try running with that lot on. nightmare, also have fired live rounds with one on and its a complete waste of time cant hit a bloody thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Vindicare Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I use an S10 sometimes. mainly because I like the look of it. (And the look of horror on my enemies faces when I storm into a room with it on and flashlight in their face! Psychological warfare is important everywhere!) Full body cover is required for any NBC system to be effective. Nerve agents can seep through the pores in your skin as well as through your breathing. It's hot and sticks to your face, taking it off after some time is a nightmare (Like peeling yourself off a leather chair when you've been sweating on it for an hour) However it does do the job, it protects my face as well. All the while still looking vaguely military oriented. I have done the whole S10 + Kevlar thing and it's not brilliant. More weight than you really want on your neck and your hardly gonna need that level of protection for airsofting are you? I enjoy using it. Then again I DO keep a full NBC suit, DKP 1+2, sealed respirator cannisters in my cupboard... Mayeb i'm just plain crazy. (But not crazy enough to do another NBC exercise weekend! Jeez, try wearing all that NBC gear for 72 hours solid. Plus the decontamination drills... And let's not even go into the toilet drills! *shudder*) Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 hehehe Yeah, the S-10 isn't the most comfortable thing if you're wearing it for hours on end, while charging through your favourite game zone, but you do get used to it - I did. Now if I could just figure out how to have a cigarette through it... The Psychological aspect Vindicare spoke about is a good one. Quite a few times I've seen the shocked "OMG" expressions on people's faces when I storm through a room taking out the opposition as I go - the targets hesitating as they see the S-10 clad monster charging at them. Strangely, I also find that a LOT fewer shots come my way when I use the mask, and amp up the aggression. P1, you could still use a half-faced mask and make it look good. A lick of Black, Olive or DPM style paint, and it could be a real winner. It depends how "Realistic" you want to be. Personally, I go for function over form, and a half-face mask might be just what you want. At the very least, it will stop fogging of glasses, help you breathe easier in heavy smoke, provide excellent mouth/nose/teeth protection, and scare a few newbies on the field Link to post Share on other sites
Banzai Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 A mate of mine uses one, he looks quite silly and if often gives him away but all he ususes is 2 mac 10's (yes, 10, not 11) and runs around with a MM moscart launcher and 3 moscarts so, he reallydoesnt neee to aim, lol Link to post Share on other sites
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