Kokanee Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I cut and pasted this from my original post on AirsoftCanada. Doesn't really apply to our Brit friends, but for the rest of us in the colonies I thought this might be relevant; Long story short, after putting less than 5,000 rounds through my TM M14, it magically lost the ability to fire in semi. My research into the cause only revealed one post on Arnie's with a vague description of the problem. What I have been able to sort out is that this; Part is the problem. Anyone who has taken down their M14 will recognize this piece, part of the selector system that pushes on the sector gear to enable semi fire. The area circled in red was originally much larger, but has been worn down by the guarder steel sector gear. What little info I have been able to devine from msg boards and the backs of some sugar packets suggests that running a high tension spring will have this worn down to a nub in no time. I have been running a Prometheus xxxxx since it was bought, so this would seem to be a plausible deduction. So if anyone else has converted their M14 to semi-only, or are operating a spring above standard full auto fps rules, be advised there is the potential for you to accidentally unload a good volley into someone when meaning to take a single shot. Myself, I'm downgrading until guarder or another company comes up with a steel upgrade part for this. I suppose Marui can't be blamed for this per say, but that part is made of pot metal, and they are fully aware of the type of aftermarket spring people put in thier AEG's..... Link to post Share on other sites
evilliboba Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Wow thanks for the info. I wonder if I can mill one of those in my dad's workshop when I get my M14... Link to post Share on other sites
KaiserGorlak Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 damn thanks...ill let my friend know who was planning to get upgrades for his... Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I suppose Marui can't be blamed for this per say, but that part is made of pot metal, and they are fully aware of the type of aftermarket spring people put in thier AEG's.....[/i] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can't believe he had the cheek to say this. Whether a manufacturer is aware of aftermarket parts or not, they can in no way be held responsible for anything that happens as a result of a customer screwing around with the internals. Link to post Share on other sites
\OneShot/ Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Can't believe he had the cheek to say this. Whether a manufacturer is aware of aftermarket parts or not, they can in no way be held responsible for anything that happens as a result of a customer screwing around with the internals. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True. But we want our products made to a high standard so that we can upgrade them, and it is there responsability to do this otherwise we just wont buy them. Link to post Share on other sites
Hustie Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Thanks for that. But still, I have quite a high spring in mine and have fire plenty of ammo through it. Then again, I'm cheap and decided to keep the TM gears in. Which apparently, don't do damage to that part. Link to post Share on other sites
Utty Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 'Product Defect'? Shouldn't this thread be titled 'User Error'? Still, useful info. Conclusion: stick with TM gears. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 What spring was he running to do that? Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 its not possible that running a higher spring in the gearbox will exert more stress on that part. thats not how the gearbox works. the Sector gear is held (fixed) in place by the gearbox shell. running a higher spring does not cause any more lateral movement of this part (not that there's any in the first place). as hissing sid would no doubt tell you (were he still here). its not the springs fault. Link to post Share on other sites
UrPeaceKeeper Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 its not possible that running a higher spring in the gearbox will exert more stress on that part. thats not how the gearbox works. the Sector gear is held (fixed) in place by the gearbox shell. running a higher spring does not cause any more lateral movement of this part (not that there's any in the first place). as hissing sid would no doubt tell you (were he still here). its not the springs fault. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm... all guarder parts in mine, works fine in both semi and full auto... guess the Systema 1*0 spring I put in it isnt to blame? Good point out though, find someone who still has theirs and have a new one made outa high quality metal. Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 True. But we want our products made to a high standard so that we can upgrade them, and it is there responsability to do this otherwise we just wont buy them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't confuse high fps with high standard. These are toys and no manufacturer has any responsibilty to produce anything to your expectations. Tokyo Marui designed their gearboxes to run with a certain spring. The design and material spec will be decided with this in mind. Any decent quality manufactured product will have a calculated safety factor to allow for variances during the manufacturing process. Thus some users will find that their guns run fine with minimal reinforced parts with a power upgrade. If you have 2 working parts and replace one with a stronger replacement, then don't be surprised if the oem part gets worn down quicker. If you want to upgrade a gearbox, upgrade all necessary parts not just the bare minimum. Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 it is also important to note that seeing as many other people have TM M14's and none of them have failed in this manner, its possible that that one piece was a dud-cast (for whatever reason) how long have you had the M14 Kokanee? you could try returning it if its from a in-canada store, if not, you could ask the shop you bought it from to send you a replacement, because they can probably get one (or a hundred) from TM. Hows your AK74SU doing? Link to post Share on other sites
tinkle60 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 I don't know about Canadian consumer law, but here in the UK you're can't really return an item that has failed as a result of an aftermarket mod. Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 it hasn't failed as a result of the spring though, because that isn't possible unless the bushes that the Sector gear is riding in are very well worn, in which case the gun wouldn't be firing. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Still, if you open a product up and mess about with the internals, it's going to be on you to prove whatever went wrong WASN'T caused by you. Moral of the story: don't mess with guns if they're still under warranty. Unless you don't mind losing the warranty. Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Still, if you open a product up and mess about with the internals, it's going to be on you to prove whatever went wrong WASN'T caused by you. Moral of the story: don't mess with guns if they're still under warranty. Unless you don't mind losing the warranty. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the sledgehammer strikes again!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Kokanee Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 AOD - my aksu is doing very well thankyou, I'm currently finishing up it's "russification" ie, all black w/ plum furniture - so it'll be a standard aksu. I am thinking that perhaps yes, this was just bad luck when it comes to QCing with TM, and that I got a bad part, it happens... as always thanks for the constructive comments. [rant] Sledge - Actually here in Canada we don't have brick and mortar retailers whom provide warranties, and at no point was I suggesting that I should be getting anything free.. Please educate yourself on the airsoft situation in Canada before you go shooting your mouth of please. Further more, not that I'm the best when it comes to AEG maintenance, but I am fully capable of (and I do) servicing /repairing my airsoft items internally and externally. My purpose in posting was to put a shout out to the community that this situation may arise - you know, spreading knowledge, conversing, kinda what this board is for etc? ------ [/rant] Anyhoo, the reason I checked back up on this thread, I've restored semi auto function to the rifle. The area circled (above pic) in red was strategically heatshrink wrapped, and this has restored the dimensions of the part enough to restore normal operation. Link to post Share on other sites
RRKeith Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Conclusion: Go with G&G. Link to post Share on other sites
davedawg123 Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 That certainly sucks. So in other words, the cam on the steel sector gear is wearing out the cutoff lever? Is this happening to the majority of people who do such an upgrade? Link to post Share on other sites
Kokanee Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 That certainly sucks. So in other words, the cam on the steel sector gear is wearing out the cutoff lever? Is this happening to the majority of people who do such an upgrade? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep you're bang on the head. So far I'm the second case documented online I have been able to locate, and we have plenty of M14's running XaboveforumlimitsX springs on this side of the pond. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 In what way was anything I said "shooting my mouth off"? Link to post Share on other sites
davedawg123 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I was thinking of something else that might be the problem. Have you taken a look at the spring that connects the cutoff lever to the cover plate? If it's weak/overstretched, the cutoff lever might not have enough force to return the cutoff lever to it's semi-mode starting position fast enough before the cam on the sector gear turns over. This could possibly give you a few shots on one pull of the trigger. Or, it could even leave your cutoff lever stuck in the auto position for as long as the trigger is held. The trigger would then need to be pulled again in order nudge the spring into snapping the lever back into the starting position of semi. As for your heatshrink solution, couldn't the rubber get worn into your gearbox? Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 i say again, this issu cannot be caused by the hi-powered spring. the Gearbox does not work that way. there are two way to exaggerate wear on that part: Running a very high-voltage battery. more volts = faster gearbox = more cycles. the semi-auto-cam on the sector gear is either rough or serrated (for some reason) which is causing abnormal wear on this part. Link to post Share on other sites
Hristo Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Any more news on this subject ? I'm considering the purchase of Guarder FTK, but this really puts me off. Link to post Share on other sites
Kokanee Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 The guarder gears do indeed seem to be a little rough upon inspection, I sanded/polished the cam down last time I opened the box up. The patchwork heatshrink solution seems to be holding up fine for now. Link to post Share on other sites
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