Improved Gas Comsuption For We Hi-capa's !

[Stylin7]

I just did a little mod that helped the gas seal in the loading muzzle. With the better seal it helped gas consumption and fps. I took the slide completelly apart and took the o-ring off the piston head and put a thin piece of electrical tape where the o-ring goes and then put the o-ring back on it sealed up the nice the loading muzzle. To good the first time, too much elec tape. The way it is just short of a full wrap around the piston head.

 

I don't have pics as I did this so I will give a step by step and a scan of the slide exploded diagram from the manual.

 

Remove the slide from the frame. (if you don't know how refer to your manual)

 

Remove the screw(part 7) from the rear sight so that you can get to the screw under it that holds the blow back chamer in. Be careful not to lose the small spring(part 8).

 

Remove the small screw(part 88) under the rear sight and the hex screw(part 18) that the hamer strikes on the back of the slide.

 

Now remove the blow back chamber (everything in the red box comes out together)

 

Take out spring 17 or it will fly out in the next step.

 

Pull the loading muzzle(part 19) away from the rest and once it is all the way forward you wil have to gentle pesuade it out there is a tab circled in green that holds the loading muzzle in. If you gentle rotate the laoding muzzle up it will allow you to remove it.

 

Now you can remove the screw(part 14) holding the piston head(part 12) in place.

 

Take the o-ring (part 13) off of the piston head. DO THIS CAREFULLY SO YOU DON'T DAMAGE THE O-RING!!

 

Now cut a piece of electrical tape so it's the same width and the o-ring grove. For me it was about 5 mm short of a full wrap to get the best results. Too much and the loading muzzle will not move properly, not enough and you will have some seal as good as it could, but would still be better than not doing this.

 

Reassemble and test to be sure the loading muzzle stays in contact with the barrel while the slide goes back. Slide should move about 3/4" before loading muzzle snaps back. If you find out the loading muzzle is not staying with the barrel you need to take it the slide apart and remove some electrical tape.

 

 

This mod allowed me to get almost the first full mag of bb's all above 300 fps with the first shot being around 325 fps. The 2nd load of bb's dropped to 290's and by the end of the 2nd mag was in the low 280's to mid 270's. I got about 5 shot's of the 3rd mag before running out of gas. so about 65 bb's to a gas fill compared to about 45 - 50 that I was getting. The testing was done at about 65 degrees and about 1 shot ever 1-1.5 secounds not rapid fire but not alot of time for the mag to warm up again.

 

The test weapon was a WE Dragon type B. other mods are polished slide rails.

 

My next mod maybe to machine holes in the front of the slide to reduce weight even more (if I don't sell it first).

 

Please let me know what you think of this.

 

Edit: Be sure to re-lube the oring with silicon

[The Saint]

Hm, so poor air seal around the piston head. Not too surprising. Thanks for the cheap alternative, those with a WE1911 might want to consider this?

 

BTW, while we're on the subject of tape fixes and Dragons. Try wrapping tape around the inner barrel so it sits perfectly centered (but not so tight that it can't slide back and forth easily) inside the outer barrel. Then use some tape to shim up the space between the underside of the outer barrel and the front end/housing. It really helps with accuracy.

[Yeager]

Nope, I don't think it will work on the WEI 1911.

 

The piston head has a giant suctioncup style rubber piece rather than the O-ring pictured.

 

 

 

I pray that I'm wrong, because without your mod this gun is a steaming pile.

[The Saint]

I think you got a lemon Yeager, a lot of WE1911s shoot fine without any mod. Should note that someone tried their WE1911 top slide on a TM Hi-Capa and it shot great, so that suction cup design is not inherently inferior to an O-ring.

[Yeager]

I think you got a lemon Yeager, a lot of WE1911s shoot fine without any mod. Should note that someone tried their WE1911 top slide on a TM Hi-Capa and it shot great, so that suction cup design is not inherently inferior to an O-ring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Mine shot great for the first few days, then the slide started sticking on blowback & the slide lock stoped working. My gas consumption is also way up from what it was orignally.

[dyers]

A club mate gave me his 1911 to have a look at. I found a few inherant design problems in the one he has (first version WE 1911 I think).

 

First, the guides and such on the slide and frame need filing to make it smooter running. Second, I found the loading nozzle (think thats what its called) was too big and was sticking in the hop chamber. That was causing a similar to what you describe above.

 

My solution on his gun was to sit and watch tv and rack the slide back for an hour non stop. This wore it in a bit. And I relubed the gun completely.

 

Shoots better now. Not great but better.

[Sale]

The TM 4.3 Hi-Capa uses a suction cup type "lip seal", while the 5.1 uses a regular O-ring. I'm willing to bet that you can replace the suction cup type piston head from the clones (WE) to upgraded versions from PDI, Shooter's Design and such.

 

To fit the O-ring more accurately, use teflon plumber's tape instead of electrical tape. It's thinner so you can adjust the seal/friction ratio more accurately. It's available in the plumbing/tubing section of any hardware store. It's also great for keeping screws tight without using Loctite.

 

-Sale

[shinjinMC]

2nd run 5.1 hicapas also use that "lip seal" as well

no more oring blowouts, but less fps

I find in colder weather the oring is much better, but the lip seal is far more reliable in warmer weather

[scithe]

A club mate gave me his 1911 to have a look at.  I found a few inherant design problems in the one he has (first version WE 1911 I think).

 

First, the guides and such on the slide and frame need filing to make it smooter running.  Second, I found the loading nozzle (think thats what its called) was too big and was sticking in the hop chamber.  That was causing a similar to what you describe above.

 

My solution on his gun was to sit and watch tv and rack the slide back for an hour non stop.  This wore it in a bit.  And I relubed the gun completely.

 

Shoots better now.  Not great but better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

good point, also though, check the spring in the blowback chamber. if that is scrunched up so that it does not span across the gap it fills then you need to replace that.

 

by the way, kudos stylin7

[Stylin7]

To fit the O-ring more accurately, use teflon plumber's tape instead of electrical tape. It's thinner so you can adjust the seal/friction ratio more accurately. It's available in the plumbing/tubing section of any hardware store. It's also great for keeping screws tight without using Loctite.

 

-Sale

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I was doing this I hadn't thought of teflon tape, If I end up redoing this or taking the the gun apart I will try teflon tape.

 

by the way, kudos stylin7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks!

[shinjinMC]

that spring in the blowback chamber, if you are referring to that long, thin thing that sits at the very top, doesnt actually do anything in the firing cycle

it just tucks the chamber away neatly during slide-lock so it looks nicer

 

you can take it out without anything bad happening

[CobaltSky]

I'm pretty sure you need it so that the chamber allows a new bb in.

 

Wouldn't make a very good gun if it didn't do that.

[scithe]

that spring in the blowback chamber, if you are referring to that long, thin thing that sits at the very top, doesnt actually do anything in the firing cycle

it just tucks the chamber away neatly during slide-lock so it looks nicer

 

you can take it out without anything bad happening

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

cobaltsky is rite. the spring acts as a delayed blowback mechanism.

what happens is that the slide moves back about 1/3rd of the way withough the loading nozzle parting from the chamber. this gives the gas enough time to push the bb out the barrel. after that (the slide at this point is still moving back) the spring gets too tense and needs to strach out again at which point it pushes the nozzle guide backward which pulls the nozzle backward dissengaging it from the chamber.

 

withought the spring, or with a scrunched up spring, the loading nozzle will not pull out of the chamber to load te next round in time. not only that, but in many guns the gas used to push the slide back is mostly dispersed by the time the nozzle disengages from the chamber, and the slide moves back the rest of the way on momentum. if the nozzle does not disengage in time there will not be enough gas left to push the slide back all the way.

 

if there is something solid placed in the slot instead of a spring the gas nozzle will pull away to quickly and the bb will have verry little power as most of the gas will be sprayed out the ejection port.

[Yeager]

After preforming the above mods my 1911 went from getting 8-9 rounds on propane to 15-17. Just need to file a bit more and get some thinner silicone oil (using 100 weight shock oil)

[CobaltSky]

I'll have to see if I can dig out some PFTE tape. I know I used to have some but I don't know where it went.

[Mad-Larkin]

any tips on getting the o-ring off pls?

[scithe]

make sure to pull only one section down over the front, not both at the same time. you can try using a small thin flat-headed screwdriver.

[Mad-Larkin]

ok nice one, got it off, was really scared that i would scratch it or something.

 

now i've got it all apart, if only i had something other than gaffer tape -.-

 

looks like a trip to the hardware store tommorrow

[Mad-Larkin]

right, sorry for double post, but i may have just screwed my gun -.-

 

basically, whilst i was sitting here just playing with the gun moaning about not having the right tape, i decided to put the slide on and cock it without the blowback chamber back in. i was just trying to work out how the hammer system works.

 

anyways, now the hammer won't stay cocked back, i have no clue whats happened. anyone else done this?

[Stylin7]

I think there is a piece back by the hamer that the slide pushes down to keep the hammer locked. It might be the blow back champer that pushes the piece down as it cycles. Try pulling the hammer back with the slide of and push the piece down on the left side near the hammer. If that doesn't make sense I will get out the manual and scan the diagram of the area I am talking about. I am not 100% that will be the problem but I am fairly sure.

[scithe]

ok, take it apart down to the lower frame. remove the grip by unscrewing the top screws (don't bother with the bottom ones, they are cosmetic). then take off the backstrap, after that you will see a silver thing with three little fingers sorta things and whatever aswell as a black "tail". anyhoo, then on the lower frame where it meets with the grip there should be a small metal piece sticking out the bottom. this should line up with the rightmost finger on the silver thing. then there should also be a black tail conected to the hammer. then line up that tail with the small metal piece in a hole in the backstrap. the bottom of the tail should be on top of that metal part. then push the grip into the frame and push the backstrap into the grip. hold the pieces together tightly and try the hammer. if it works in the two stage function then put the retaining pins and screws in and your done.

[Mad-Larkin]

ok, thanks scithe, i'm gonna have to try it tommorrow though as my eyes are starting to loose focus.

 

at least this is all good experience in fixing guns i'll let ya know how it goes

[scithe]

ok, thanks scithe, i'm gonna have to try it tommorrow though as my eyes are starting to loose focus.

 

at least this is all good experience in fixing guns   i'll let ya know how it goes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok, cewl. good luck.

if you need help feel free to pm or whatever.

[shinjinMC]

oh?

I actually ran my hicapa for a few months without that little spring after losing it

 

anyway, yeah, its that silver leaf spring thats out of place

you can also push out the retaining pin that is holding the mainspring housing on the bottom out, remove that, and then mess around with the leaf spring

[Sale]

You have to remember that the blowback mechanism works differently when it's driven by gas, compared to manual racking. When the gas expands inside the loading nozzle (after the BB has left the barrel and the switch valve has shut gas flow to the barrel), the slide is pushed back by the gas piston. An equal amount of force keeps the loading nozzle forward, and it will certainly not start retreating because of a flimsy little spring, at least until it's completely compressed.

 

Some GBBs (KSC TMP for example) don't even have this spring. I believe the theory of having the loading nozzle neatly tucked away is closest to the truth. Another thing might be that it must be in the rear position when the slide returns forward, so it doesn't start loading the next BB prematurely, which would likely cause a malfunction.

 

-Sale