Odd Job Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Ladies and Gents I work in a hospital, as a radiographer. My specialty is projectile injuries (usually gunshot wounds). Anyway I am not going to discuss injuries from real steel, what I want to know is this: 1) Has anyone here been unfortunate enough to sustain an airsoft BB injury to the eye? 2) What damage was sustained? 3) Was there any penetration of the BB or any part thereof into any part of the eye? The reason I am asking this is because I was involved in a case where a young man sustained such an injury, and there was some confusion about whether the BB could have penetrated the eye and subsequently failed to show up on X-ray. I have the X-ray side licked (I can X-ray all sorts of projectiles to see if they show up) but it would be helpful if I can get some idea of the frequency of eye penetration from airsoft BBs. Many thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites
sirrith Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 a guy at one of the games i attended was hit in the eye when the bb hit his shades from behind (not full seal) and bounced into his eye. damage.. none, just pain, and couldnt open the eye for a while, had to sit out a game or two the bb didnt penetrate, no permanent damage was done, i doubt there was even a scratch. that was from a 1.3J+ gun i think. Link to post Share on other sites
SwatMP5man Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Very unlikely in this country as almost every site has a glasses/goggles/mask rule. Without one of the above you don't play, simple. Those that shoot at home if they don't wear googles thats there own fault and they probably wont be playing again. Also most goggles can stand a hit, however i'm more conscious of a 500fps sniper shatterings my shooting glasses and the damage they'll do. However if such and accident should happen i reckon a hit from 280fps upwards would totally destroy the pupil, iris, optic lens and the retina. Totally blindness. Link to post Share on other sites
Desolation mkII Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I had a friend who was hit in the eye by a ~200 fps gun. It didn't penetrate but it did leave a bleeding wound (I wasn't present when it happened). Link to post Share on other sites
XenoBait Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I don't know if they will help you, but insurance companies for skirmish sites ought to have accident data. May be worth contacting your local skirmish site or the UKASGB to find a helpful insurer... Link to post Share on other sites
minimiman Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 A team mate recently recieved an eye injury A burst hit and moved his glasses, with the last BB hitting his eye lid. At first there wasn't a problem, except pain, but sight was soon after lost in the eye. The eye had recieved a trauma and an internal bleed, covering the inside of the retina inside the cornea and blocking vision. No lasting damage once blood cleared but several weeks of poor vision. There was no penetration into the eye. Last I heard he was well and truly on the mend, but was seriously looking at eye protection. Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 There have been non at the site that is run down here, in all of the 7 years its been going. Goggles for the Win!! which is more than can be said for trimming the hedge.... I am currently nursing a very watery eye, where a bit flew off and whacked me straight in it. Airsoft = Safe Gardening = dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites
Mp5K Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 yea, i had a friend. we were plaing CQB, he was in the safe zone, cuz he was "dead" but hhe took his mask off. meanwhile there was a rush going on outside the room. a bb from another friends SD6 skipped off the wall and hit him staight on. it was a pretty badddd thing. it bleed for a while. then stopped. he went to the doctors later. they said he had internal eye bleeding. he has to take some medicine for it and eventually some sorta surgery.. im not sure what though the bb didnt penetrate, but it did scratch his cornea. hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites
Gir Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 A team mate recently recieved an eye injury A burst hit and moved his glasses, with the last BB hitting his eye lid. At first there wasn't a problem, except pain, but sight was soon after lost in the eye. The eye had recieved a trauma and an internal bleed, covering the inside of the retina inside the cornea and blocking vision. No lasting damage once blood cleared but several weeks of poor vision. There was no penetration into the eye. Last I heard he was well and truly on the mend, but was seriously looking at eye protection. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That why i will ALWAYS use full seal goggles. You could shoot at my eyes all you want, and you'd never worry about shooting goggles off... Some fields i play at allow over 18 to use shooting glasses, but even when i am 18 (17 in a month), i will still stick to goggles. There is no current surgery that can regain sight from your eye being shot out... Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore_Mitsuko Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Just for my own clarification, by penetrating do you mean "going into the eye" or just "bursting the eye open"? Link to post Share on other sites
Fullauto Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Sounds a bit grisly, but maybe it's worth going to the butchers and getting a bagful of eyes to do some tests on? Link to post Share on other sites
minimiman Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 That why i will ALWAYS use full seal goggles. You could shoot at my eyes all you want, and you'd never worry about shooting goggles off... Some fields i play at allow over 18 to use shooting glasses, but even when i am 18 (17 in a month), i will still stick to goggles. There is no current surgery that can regain sight from your eye being shot out... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And the chance of shooting an eye out is????? not much at all. The above incident is the only one I know of in airsoft where an actual eye has been damaged (short term) by a BB. we are only dealing with low velocities in airsoft, so I would be suprised if anybody could post up an incident where somebody had permanently lost their sight through playing while wearing eye protection. The eye is actually quite a resiliant organ. Very painfull if tampered with, but resiliant none-the-less Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Job Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 t for my own clarification, by penetrating do you mean "going into the eye" or just "bursting the eye open"? @ Mitsuko I am more interested in penetration of the eye, but if you know of a burst globe I will definitely be interested to know what happened. @ All Thanks for your replies, they fit in with what I suspected. Link to post Share on other sites
McMadkat Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Out of interest I doubt if a 500fps gun would bust goggle. I shot at a pair using a variety of guns, Airsoft G19...no marks 0.91J. Umerex CP88 Co2 gun 4J, mark on surface. BSA Supersport airifle 16J, broke goggles, but the paper under them was only dented, so although they broke they absorbed all the energy and the pellet did not even penetrate paper. Made me a lot happier using that type of googles after that! Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Andrews Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 We have had one incident in over 10 years of regular twice monthly gaming, where a player wearing his own goggles (paintball type with wide elastic restraint) tripped, caught goggles on bush and then stood up. By sods law a bb hit him full in the eye. (range unknown) Eye was red with blood, he couldn't see. Straight to hospital. Two weeks before he could see properly. No apparent lasting damage and he still plays. Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore_Mitsuko Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 @ Mitsuko I am more interested in penetration of the eye, but if you know of a burst globe I will definitely be interested to know what happened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't really know of any, I was just wondering exactly what you meant. Link to post Share on other sites
1st Commando Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I know of a great many hits directly to the eye over the years and yet NONE have sustained lasting damage . usually a few days of uncomfortable bruising/swelling and a blurred vision on that eye for a day or two but after which time the eyes have repaired fully (note these were all 1j or below) Link to post Share on other sites
Maddog96 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 With paintball googles I don't believe that it could penetrate. Even if the googles were to break, it would slow down. Now with mesh googles I can see it happenning. Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Andrews Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I know of a great many hits directly to the eye over the years and yet NONE have sustained lasting damage . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remind me never to play at any of the sites you frequent! Were these incidents on regular sites or kids with springers? Link to post Share on other sites
1st Commando Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 these were many years ago mainly and one guy who had a dumb moment when cleaning his rifle and shot himself point blank in the eye Link to post Share on other sites
Gigueand Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 This is exactly why airsoft needs to adopt more strict standards in terms of eyewear. The sheer variety of different goggles systems, from full face to almost swim goggle and shooting type glasses present a variety of issues especially when faced with guns firing multi-weight projectiles at various velocities. The airsoft community, both players and manufacturers need to come together, as in the paintball industry, and discuss what type of velocities and eyewear should be appropriate and which should not. Overall, I think this issue is the biggest threat to airsoft in the United States (and elsewhere). While paintball has industry set standards and a wide degree of regulation both in industry and at fields, airsoft lacks these things. Personally, in the several locations I have played I have walked off the field because of lackadaisical safety measures. In my experience, which is admittedly limited, I have encountered places which offer no safety briefings, have malfunctioning chronographs and lax attitudes on goggle safety (IE, people lifting their goggles on the field and not being banned even when this fact was reported to game officials). This is seriously scary business. edit: spelling Link to post Share on other sites
Crispin1025 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Sounds a bit grisly, but maybe it's worth going to the butchers and getting a bagful of eyes to do some tests on? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good idea mate. I have friends that play with springers and have sustained a few injuries, no penetrations, bleeding and what-not of course, but nothing going through. I am not sure how familiar you are with the eye, but it would seem to me that if the BB had gone through, there would be a boatload more damage, the fluid in the eye would leak, there would be a definitive entry wound, the BB could/would obscure vision, etc. I'd take a close look at that wound. Do you have MRI/CT scan capabilities? If so, one might be in order. Also, remember MRI's (not sure about CT scans) can do scans with marking dye, so the BB may stand out against that better than it would without. Hope that helped! Cheers, Daniel Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 You know, the FSS did do tests, I'm sure I read it somewhere You may have heard of the 1.35J limit? According to the FSS it takes more than 1.35J to penetrate the eyeball (although people from NI apparently have stronger eyeballs at 2J) Of course, 1.35J is the energy required to penetrate, it doesn't mean that 1.34J will do no damage. Sufficient impact will cause bruising causing the internal bleeding that has been described which will intefere with vision. This is pretty superficial however, and once the blood has cleared, normal vision should return. All the news reports about eyes being penetrated relate to air pistols/rifles which fire much higher energies. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Sorry to bring this one up, but i saw someone take a shot to the eye yesterday - not nice at all, bloody scary as well. I don't know which one of the two of us actually fired the shot, but it was at about 15-20 metres range and got past his shooting glasses. Shot hit the eyelid rather than the eye itself. Either: 290-300 FPS with a .2g bb OR 300-310 FPS with a .25g bb Bloke couldn't open his eye, then blurred vision, then couldn't really see much at all. This was yesterday. Today he's pretty much fine from what i've heard. Royal Marine as well, hard as nails. Only comment was "that smart like a *badgeress*..." Link to post Share on other sites
logan garrison Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 some one post a pic Link to post Share on other sites
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