Sledge Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 As per title, really. Quite a few people still seem to think that UTG do something other than buy cheap guns and rebrand them before selling them for more money. So, can people with proof either way please post here, in the hope we can put this tiresome issue to bed. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
ronburgundy__ Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Didnt we discuss this like 6 months ago when matt was like OMGZ UTGROXMYPANTS!!! and darklite was like stfu *badgeress* its the same? Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Probably, but the point isn't getting through. So let's get some proof going and settle it. Besides, what else you going to do? Help the eleventy billionth n00b choose between M4s? Link to post Share on other sites
ronburgundy__ Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 there was proof, and we did settle it. Link to post Share on other sites
Epyon Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Didnt we discuss this like 6 months ago when matt was like OMGZ UTGROXMYPANTS!!! and darklite was like stfu *badgeress* its the same? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ***SIGGED*** Link to post Share on other sites
DazJW Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I've had the DE and UTG versions of the shotguns (m87/M47 or whatever they were). Obviously everyone knows that the UTG has the rusty iron rod in the shell tube. This at least proves they do something to some guns. The paint also felt a bit different on the two, the DE seemed to be rougher. This could be down to the time between the two being bought though, as it was a month or two after getting the UTG that I got the DE and the factory may have switched paints in this time frame. So the only definate change UTG made to the shotguns was a bit of rusty metal, down to the individual if that's worth the extra money. They do make it feel less cheap but you could shove some rubbish in the DE and it would do the same. The UTG however did come with an extra magazine and the DE did not. The magazine that came with the DE also had the different paint feel and the bits you squeeze to remove the mag didn't work properly (one side didn't budge). I think there was a fiver difference between the two, and I feel an extra mag is worth that. The important point though is the gun's workings and components were exactly the same. Absolutely zero difference. Link to post Share on other sites
rwham Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 As per title, really. Quite a few people still seem to think that UTG do something other than buy cheap guns and rebrand them before selling them for more money. So, can people with proof either way please post here, in the hope we can put this tiresome issue to bed. Cheers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Close, but the m87's were I guess sort of "upgraded", and the warrior L96 rebrand that is coming out is a different color and has a bipod, and it is cheaper than a warrior shipped from china with a bipod. So...yeah. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Adding accessories is not upgrading, by any definition normally used around these parts. Link to post Share on other sites
Epyon Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 All 5 of my Double Eagle M87's had the weight in the cocking tube. Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Andrews Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I would think, most of these guns come from an 'unbranded' factory and are supplied to the likes of UTG or Well or whoever with whatever additions that the likes of UTG require. Lead weights 'x' amount, with steel weights 'y' amount, with no weights 'z' amount. With or without two mags etc. Something similar to the way Peugeot, Citroen and Renault supply vehicles using the same floor pan, but with minor detail differences. Link to post Share on other sites
chalupa5199 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 my utg mp5 had WELL stamped on the gearbox! i would take a pic but i have no clue where the gun is, or if the gearbox is even in it. isnt UTG based in america ? that would mean if they made guns they would say made in USA not MADE IN CHINA. Link to post Share on other sites
MistorPie Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 my utg mp5 had WELL stamped on the gearbox! i would take a pic but i have no clue where the gun is, or if the gearbox is even in it. isnt UTG based in america ? that would mean if they made guns they would say made in USA not MADE IN CHINA. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They don't make their airsoft guns, so why would they stamp Made in the USA on it? Link to post Share on other sites
Bldr.dh Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I get the idea that a lot of this argument comes from people's definition of 'rebrand' I consider it as such: One company buys or rips off a design from another company and produces it under their name. The design is completely unchanged. The gun from company A is the same as the gun from company B. What I understand about UTG is this (gathered from the other thread): - UTG is a name under a larger company Leapers, Inc. UTG is not a company in itself. - Leapers sits down with WELL and DE to discuss which guns they will produce, work out the designs together. This means Leapers/UTG has a say in the design of the products. - Because of this, it can be said that UTG is not buying or ripping off a design and producing it under their name. They had a say in the original gun. That said, I cannot vouch for their AEGs, but I'm quite confident that UTG is not ripping of the spring guns (M324, M87, etc.) from DE. For those who are claiming that UTG is ripping off DE, the same argument could be made for DE ripping off UTG. Someone on another board has compared the CYMA AK-47 Para with the UTG one and they're completely different -- I know that's not the be-all end-all, but I know several people have claimed they are the same gun. Link to post Share on other sites
101matt1 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Didnt we discuss this like 6 months ago when matt was like OMGZ UTGROXMYPANTS!!! and darklite was like stfu *badgeress* its the same? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But that was like 6 months ago, when I was an immature twat, now wasn't it? UTG takes guns, adds mags, slings, etc. and sells at a ridiculously high price. EDIT: and to the post above me: Darklite can prove that there is no UTG factory, and that WELL, DE and the like will many times get the trade marks messed up. Like a few days ago I was shooting with my friend who just got his UTG MP5. We look at it and on the side: "R5". Proof they come off the same line at the same factory... Link to post Share on other sites
ianhaz Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 This thread makes me violently ill Link to post Share on other sites
Bldr.dh Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 But that was like 6 months ago, when I was an immature twat, now wasn't it? UTG takes guns, adds mags, slings, etc. and sells at a ridiculously high price. EDIT: and to the post above me: Darklite can prove that there is no UTG factory, and that WELL, DE and the like will many times get the trade marks messed up. Like a few days ago I was shooting with my friend who just got his UTG MP5. We look at it and on the side: "R5". Proof they come off the same line at the same factory... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I stand somewhat corrected -- Even if UTG doesn't have a factory of its own, can it still be said that UTG has at least some say in the design (whether it be the original design or improving/fixing issues from an older model)? <-- genuine question, not hypothetical. I'd like to get a better idea of the topic. Link to post Share on other sites
ronburgundy__ Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 THe idea of the topic is utg doesnt make their own guns. They buy them from manufacturers in china. UTG aeg's have guns with 6.2mm bearings, just like WELL guns. No other manufacturer uses 6.2mm bearings. Link to post Share on other sites
101matt1 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I stand somewhat corrected -- Even if UTG doesn't have a factory of its own, can it still be said that UTG has at least some say in the design (whether it be the original design or improving/fixing issues from an older model)? <-- genuine question, not hypothetical. I'd like to get a better idea of the topic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This could very well be true. I don't think anyone knows this, as no one here works at any of those factories/companies. But still, I wouldn't bet my money on it... Link to post Share on other sites
Bldr.dh Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Ok, fair enough. I'll just watch now. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 blah...blah...That said, I cannot vouch for their AEGs, but I'm quite confident that UTG is not ripping of the spring guns (M324, M87, etc.) from DE. For those who are claiming that UTG is ripping off DE, the same argument could be made for DE ripping off UTG....<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nobody is talking about "ripping off" other comapnies products. If we were, somebody would have pointed out that they're ALL ripping off TM guns. The point is more that these guns are being made by a Chinese company and sold on to the public. It MIGHT be that Cyma and Double Eagle make these guns or it might be that they buy them in and resell them for themselves. Then there's UTG. They are also buying these guns, either from the same place that Cyma and DE or from Cyma and DE and then rebranding them and selling them to the public. Now we've got people saying that, for example, a UTG MP5 is actually a bettery-quality gun than a Cyma MP5 and people are asking for proof of whether this is true or not. Personally, from experience I can say that my DE M870 shotgun is identical to a UTG one. Metal bar and all. I would say, however, that my DE M870 definately isn't painted but neither was the UTG one I also looked at. Is it just the stock that's painted? The ones I was interested in are the ones with a pistol grip. Link to post Share on other sites
Bldr.dh Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Ok, that makes sense -- I guess it's safe to say that ALL of the companies... WELL, DE, UTG, whomever are essentially rebranding a base model from an unnamed uber-china factory. I got the impression, because there was no mention of this mysterious omni-factory, that people believed that UTG was rebranding DE or WELL guns. In reality they're all rebranding and UTG just happened to be the one accused of it, perhaps due to the "we're better than other china companies" air about them. I'm glad that has been cleared up for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Zuka Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Obviously everyone knows that the UTG has the rusty iron rod in the shell tube. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The rusty iron rod is present on all rebrandings of the DE shotgun, including those marketed under the names of Smith and Wesson and Winchester, which are imported by Cybergun and Crosman, respectively. Link to post Share on other sites
DazJW Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Well there weren't any in my DE. Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I have a legitimate and relevant question, although it may not seem it. How much does it cost to ship a CYMA AK from Gunner Airsoft to the states? About $60USD, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I have a legitimate and relevant question, although it may not seem it. How much does it cost to ship a CYMA AK from Gunner Airsoft to the states? About $60USD, right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what it costs to ship a single gun across the ocean individually. Yes. I dunno why you ask but, in case you wer considering that as a basis for UTG prices, you can send a 20ft shipping container filled with a thousand guns across the same ocean for about $800US. That equates to an actual additional cost of 80c per gun. Link to post Share on other sites
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