16 replies to this topic

[The Chef]

I have just been speaking to my good friend Merlin (not of these forums) who has just visited HFM Pyrotechnincs

http://www.hfmgroup.com/professionalsuppli...g-grenades.html

HFM are the main distributor in the UK (please note, american cousins, this really relates to the UK only) of BFG's.

According to a conversation he had with the main guy at HFM, they (HFM) will be ceasing the sale of BFG's in the next 30 days, something to do with the up and coming VCRA. Something about the attempts to ban all types of blank firing equipment catre blanche.

Now, I am not entirely sure about the why's and wherefore's of all this because I am sure the VCRA only relates to RIF's (of which the BFG isnt one) and Primer caps and loading presses (again which the BFG doesnt fall into).

Again, this is all subject to rumour control, because whilst I believe every word Merlin has told me, I cannot say the same for the guy at HFM.

So, for those who are interested by this subject, I suggest you speak to the guy at HFM (not the woman apparently, because she is no use nor ornament - not my words...) and get this whole story straight from the horses mouth.

AGAIN, I AM ONLY PASSING ON INFORMATION THAT HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION. TO CONFIRM IT, PLEASE SPEAK WITH THE ORIGINATOR - HFM.

Also, in the same conversation, tHFM said they were looking into a viable alternative to the BFG. I know nothing further than that.

many thanks.
Rob.

[Steve Pearson]

In a word - HFM are incorrect.

The VCRA isn't banning items that use blank ammunition. BFG's are not classified as IF's/RIF's. I believe the correct term is "noise simulation device" although don't quote me on that (I can very soon find out though). Same applies to blank firing trip mines ect. Myself and my collegue who are doing these blank firing jobbies are in contact with our Firearms Unit on an almost weekly basis and they've never heard anything like what HFM are claiming. Sales gimmick/scare tactic to sell more BFG's................?

[Crispin1025]

I might add that HFM can and does import these to some of us here in the states. I think that we need to contact them directly.

Cheers,
Daniel

[Samm]

I think you mean export, and you'd be better off contacting the original manufacturers.

[The Chef]

Sales gimmick/scare tactic to sell more BFG's................?

didnt want to say it myself Steve. I couldnt understand it myself, but he as the owner states that they will be ceasing sale in 30 days time. Whether thats through misguided interpretation of the law or what I have no idea.

Might be worthwhile someone who uses them (I personally dont, got a bit of yorkshire blood in me and cannot physically throw £70 worth of perfectly serviceable equipement away from me) giving them a call and seeing what its all about.

Like I say, best from the horses mouth, rather than 2nd hand.

[Steve Pearson]

I think there's something about primers in the VCRA. I'll check first thing monday with the Firearms bods.

[The Chef]

28. Restriction on sale and purchase of primers
 
(1) This section applies to a primer that is capable of being comprised in
ammunition for a firearm. 
(2) 
It is an offence for a person to sell to another either— 
(a) a primer to which this section applies, 
( anything which is not itself ammunition for a firearm but contains such a primer, unless that other person falls within subsection
(3). 
A person falls within this subsection if—
(a)  he is a registered firearms dealer; 
(  he sells by way of any trade or business either primers or things in 
which they are contained, or both; 
©  he produces a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of the
relevant kind;
(d)  he produces a certificate authorising him to possess ammunition for a firearm; 
(e) he shows that he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 (c. 45) or any other enactment, to have posession of a firearm of the relevant kind, or of such ammunition, without a certificate; or 
(f) he produces a certificate authorising another person to have possession of such a firearm, or of such ammunition, together with that other person’s authority to purchase the primer or other thing on his behalf.
(4)  It is an offence for a person to buy or to attempt to buy—
(a)  a primer to which this section applies, or 
(  anything which is not itself ammunition for a firearm but contains such a primer, unless he falls within subsection (5).
(5) 
A person falls within this subsection if—
(a)  he is a registered firearms dealer;
(  he sells by way of any trade or business either primers or things in
which they are contained, or both; 
©  he holds a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of the
relevant kind;
(d)  he holds a certificate authorising him to possess ammunition for a firearm; 
(e) he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or any other enactment, to have possession of a firearm of the relevant kind, or of such ammunition, without a certificate; or 
(f) he is in possession of a certificate authorising another person to have possession of such a firearm, or of such ammunition, and has that other
person’s authority to purchase the primer or other thing on his behalf.
(6)  An offence under this section shall be punishable, on summary conviction—
(a)  in England and Wales, with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 
weeks or with a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or with
both; and 
(  in Scotland, with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or with a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or with both.
(7) In relation to an offence committed before the commencement of section 281(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (c. 44), the reference in subsection (6)(a) of this section to 51 weeks is to be read as a reference to 6 months. 
(8) For the purposes of this section a firearm is of a relevant kind in relation to a sale or purchase if ammunition capable of being used with that firearm contains, or may contain, primers of the same description as the primer to which the sale or purchase relates or (as the case may be) as the primer contained in the thing to which it relates.
(9)  In this section “enactment” includes an enactment passed after the passing of this Act.

all there for you chap, the bit about primers anyway... left out the bit about loading presses.

[gunfighters]

I might add that HFM can and does import these to some of us here in the states.  I think that we need to contact them directly. 

Cheers,
Daniel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ummmm
no
it dosent have a zinc barrel with the hardend steel plug to meen the "non gun" status Of the BATFE. as it is a firearm with a bore geater then .5" its a DD and treated by the BATFE the same as a frag grenade
form hmf them self
"This item comes under the AECA classification of grenades and can only be exported to the USA if the importer has a FORM 6 importation license from the U.S. Department of Justice"
http://www.hfmgroup.com/professionalsuppli...g-grenades.html
form 6
http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53303a.pdf

Edited by gunfighters, 16 February 2007 - 09:52 PM.

[Steve Pearson]

The Chef  Posted Today, 05:26 PM
 
QUOTE
28. Restriction on sale and purchase of primers

(1) This section applies to a primer that is capable of being comprised in
ammunition for a firearm.
(2)
It is an offence for a person to sell to another either—
(a) a primer to which this section applies,
(cool.gif anything which is not itself ammunition for a firearm but contains such a primer, unless that other person falls within subsection
(3).
A person falls within this subsection if—
(a)  he is a registered firearms dealer;
(cool.gif  he sells by way of any trade or business either primers or things in
which they are contained, or both;
©  he produces a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of the
relevant kind;
(d)  he produces a certificate authorising him to possess ammunition for a firearm;
(e) he shows that he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 (c. 45) or any other enactment, to have posession of a firearm of the relevant kind, or of such ammunition, without a certificate; or
(f) he produces a certificate authorising another person to have possession of such a firearm, or of such ammunition, together with that other person’s authority to purchase the primer or other thing on his behalf.
(4)  It is an offence for a person to buy or to attempt to buy—
(a)  a primer to which this section applies, or
(cool.gif  anything which is not itself ammunition for a firearm but contains such a primer, unless he falls within subsection (5).
(5)
A person falls within this subsection if—
(a)  he is a registered firearms dealer;
(cool.gif  he sells by way of any trade or business either primers or things in
which they are contained, or both;
©  he holds a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of the
relevant kind;
(d)  he holds a certificate authorising him to possess ammunition for a firearm;
(e) he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or any other enactment, to have possession of a firearm of the relevant kind, or of such ammunition, without a certificate; or
(f) he is in possession of a certificate authorising another person to have possession of such a firearm, or of such ammunition, and has that other
person’s authority to purchase the primer or other thing on his behalf.
(6)  An offence under this section shall be punishable, on summary conviction—
(a)  in England and Wales, with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51
weeks or with a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or with
both; and
(cool.gif  in Scotland, with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or with a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or with both.
(7) In relation to an offence committed before the commencement of section 281(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (c. 44), the reference in subsection (6)(a) of this section to 51 weeks is to be read as a reference to 6 months.
(8) For the purposes of this section a firearm is of a relevant kind in relation to a sale or purchase if ammunition capable of being used with that firearm contains, or may contain, primers of the same description as the primer to which the sale or purchase relates or (as the case may be) as the primer contained in the thing to which it relates.
(9)  In this section “enactment” includes an enactment passed after the passing of this Act.


all there for you chap, the bit about primers anyway... left out the bit about loading presses.

Thats it!

The section that we are interested in relating to blank ammunition is the black highlighted bit. That bit allows a person to legally own blank ammunition up to one inch in diameter without needing a licence or anything. However there is a limit as to how much a person can have/stoer at any one time though - I think it is 5kg NEQ.

The full description relating to blank ammunition and even blank firing articles can be viewed here (at the very bottom) - http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/faq16.htm

[Crispin1025]

I think you mean export, and you'd be better off contacting the original manufacturers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ya, that's what I meant. So Are these things still legal on your side of the pond or what?

Cheers,
Daniel

[PariahWolf]

I'm pretty certain they will allows be legal to own in the forseable future.

I think people are allowed to sell them, just seems that HMF are going to stop selling them for some reason.

Haven't heard anything like this from other retailers. HMF's prices aren't exactly brilliant anyway.

[madbull]

Never import this kind of stuff to US or you will get big trouble.
There are some terrible things happened to US distributor who only inport "dummy" grenades from Taiwan to US...
Be careful!

I might add that HFM can and does import these to some of us here in the states.  I think that we need to contact them directly. 

Cheers,
Daniel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Crispin1025]

If you make a replacement for them, I'd be more than happy madbul *hint hint*.

As for me obtaining them, the field I play at has them, so I can use theirs.

Cheers,
Daniel

[minimiman]

I have been in touch with HFM Pyrotechnics and their position is much the same as it has always been, although they are aware of legislation that is coming into force that may in the future affect them, this isn't necessarily the VCRAct.

They have always preferred to sell to the trade, police and military and look carefully at individuals wanting to purchase. They may end up just selling as above, but until legislation is passed and finalised simply don't know.

So, in short, it's business as normal until they know otherwise.

The VCR Act doesn't affect blanks, only seperate primer.

The loading press bit as removed as you can load a cartridge with a bit of wood and a hammer, all a press does is speeds up and automates the process.

[Death By Cadbury]

I just contacted a US real-steel retailer who can do the said importation...

the bad news is that there is a $600 tax that has to be paid for the items inspection. this fee applies if there is a single replica grenade or if there is a case of 100.

This makes importation for personal use prohibitively expensive. If anyone can think of another way to get them into the USA I'm all ears.

I want some BAD.

[The Waco Kid]

I'll bring you some over in my hand luggage next time I fly to the US.

[Lance Jackass]

Just to ask - whats happened about this. The dynatech is still on the HFM site for sale. Using up the last of the stock perhaps?