Latest from Systema:



"To be specific, we replaced all of our conventional parts which we originally believed to have been superior in strength with a lighter, hollow structured sintered product, and for the components that bears any load (such as all of our gears) we reinforced it by adding a heat treatment process. Due to the nature of the Sector Gear requiring durability yet a strong focus on light weight, special NC processing was undertaken to the small gear teeth section prior to assembly. Likewise, due to the NC processing much of the large Sector Gear teeth area have also been removed therefore to maintain the balance of strength, Dry Carbon panels have been press fitted onto that section. Our Spur /Helical Gear are our new concept."

Read more with this link...

http://www.popularairsoft.com/now-get-more...-systema-energy

So, yet another ver2 gearbox.

Nice.


Greg.

come on greg, don't you get it? It's LIGHTER! because the weight of AEGs was the biggest problem in airsoft! I'll have three!

Carbon inside!!! I'm buying it because it's P-I-M-P

You two are bad boys!

4 x super-duper-F1-carbo-light-Ver2 gearboxes please.

Did I say it was Ver2? A fundamentally flawed, ancient design for M16-a-likes.

It's a bit retro don't you think? Like selling F1 Anglia engines. If you absolutly must have a Systemma-Stoner, go the whole hog & get a PTW. I would.

I'll stick to the modern stuff: P90's, G36's, MP7's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, oh MP7's (Makes noise like Paul Whitehouse's Kenneth, 'Suits you sir') Oo!

With guns like these, (oo, MP7 sir, Oooo!), who wants yet another M16-a-like or it's innards?


Greg.

Oh dear....so Systema have machined away the sector gear and stuck a little disc of cheap carbon fibre into the space.

Marketing over material science yet again.

...

Systema never ceases to stupefy.

greg, you MISCHIEF MAKER! It is all-important to keep the V2 alive, how else will people look like american soldiers? It doesn't matter if the bb rolls out of the barrel so long as they LOOK RIGHT!

M16 am bestest. Systemmarr am even betterer.

You have to laugh, first you get mugged off buying one of the marvelous emsixteeny offerings & then you stick a new F1 V2 box in it.

It makes our quest for a bullet proof $22 nozzle look quite reasonable.


Greg.

it's a CARBON FIBRE nozzle OK! (or something). LIke in F1 carZ!

I'm starting to think i'm the only person in the world who's never had any major issues with a V2 gearbox or anything armalite related...

Am i somehow special, or magical? I'm going to assume i am.

My major issue with the v2 is that it's fiddlier than most to put back together If only systema had invented the Modify gearset that come in a backet. Then they would deserve at least some of the worship they seem to receive.

1, You are.

2, You are.

3, Me too.


Greg.

I love V2 gearboxes! But only if they are not Chinese (Ie, TM and ICS).

Shame the shell isn't CNC machined from billet though

1, Poo hop & shot to shot variation = no accuracy.

2, Front end gearbox cracks.

3, Wire rout past the pinion gear making for potential short circuit particularly with heavy guage wire.

4, Wot-u-said, it's a pig to do anything with: 2 screws remove the P90 box & a barrel change is tool-less. As opposed to an hour in the shed with a stoner.


Greg.

I am sure that Systema are kicking themselves for not thinking of the modular gearset first.

They look good but i bet its in the £300s price range

Yeah V2s are flawed but only if you abuse them or have them set up incorrectly

Mp7s Rule

1 - I can hit a coke can 9 times out of 10 about 30 yards away with either my M733 or SCAR, both V2's... Better accuracy than my G36, although that's a JG without a tightbore.

2 - 100,000 rounds through some of my V2's with no issues so far.

3/4 - Never rewired a gearbox nor opened one, so i can't really comment on that.


Personally, i've never had any of the V2 issues that get so widely reported... No idea why.

That is only abit over 25 metres... Id expect the majority of guns to be accurate at least that far enviroment depentant.

Good for you.

I'd say you don't ask much from an airsoft gun & as such your ver2's do the job.

Nothing wrong with that.

You are right, for it's intended design brief, 850rpm 300fps, the ver2 is perfectly adequate.

The problems usually come, after you have opened the box, to increase performance, rof, fps, etc. The further you get from the original spec, the more likely failure becomes.

Later version boxes, overcame the ver2's short comings & cope with upgrades more favorably.

Using your G36 as a base, to get a reliable 370fps, 1800rpm, with 12" groups at 50m, will be a lot cheaper & easier than if you use either of your ver 2 based guns.

Not that anyone whould want to do that.


Greg.

I'm gonna get killed for this...

GBBs FTW!

I reckon that'll be the answer if i'm honest - I don't run any of my GB's more than 350ish, and the highest RoF i've got is around 1050/min in my M733, and most are around 330 fps... I've never opened/fiddled/replaced bits in them either, so i reckon that's why.

I'm sure i could probably get a slightly tighter grouping at range or a better RoF if i tried, but as you said, i don't ask an awful lot of my AEG's. I can hit a man at 50 yards most of the time, and that'll do me

Excellent. Your rebuild bill is non-existent & you love a good skirmish.

What more can you ask?


Greg.

No.

You're going to be accused of spamming and trolling.

If you have nothing to contribute then don't post unless you crave warning points.

They are fun ain't they.

& I'm sure that's what attracts us to airsoft in the first place,,,,,,,,,,,,,FUN.


Greg.

If i was here for the tactics, i wouldn't usually be found charging fortified bunkers with a pair of pistols and very loud yelling xD



And yes, GBB's FTW - If you want to spend lots of money making them work, and running them, and maintaining them every few hundred shots, and running out of ammo at every possible opportunity...

I really want to join in on this but Stealth is right, we are soooooooooo off topic.


Greg.

Yes, back on topic is good - Being that the V2 isn't good for heavy upgrades, hopefully this one should be a little better for it? Don't see the need for a gearbox to be 'lightweight' really though...

They should have at least made the innovative reinforcements the newest KWA boxes have (check Golgo's great review in the review section). Systema proboxes crack just as likely as G&P's and CA's.

If not even easier. From the three I have seen least breakages on G&P-s and I have handled these the most.

B.

ive never had any issues with my v2 ither ... infact its alot more reliable than my stupiD classic army v3 .....

None of this seems too terrible impressive. I mean it's all new to airsoft but seems like just baby steps worth of progress in the design department. Powdered metal gears are nothing new to this world and heat treating powdered metal is a given. What they refer to as "NC process" can only mean nitrocarburization, a case hardening process that has been around for decades.

The biggest forehead slapping design revelation has to be the scoring of the cylinder to keep the inside surface lubricated. This is something that every single automotive engine cylinder has had since the beginning of time. But I guess Systema gets to say they invented it for airsoft. Big deal.

None of this is that impressive on it's own and until the gear box is seen in action and tested I can't say it will be worth the premium price that these parts and processes will demand.

I'm gonna guess it will cost around $400 US when it's out and that's too much money for a new sewing machine.

no no no, the weight of the AEG isnt the problem. its the backpack of spare V2s to replace the ones that split mid game that adds up in weight

in all seriousness thought i really cant see any need for this.

Lol, I'll stick with my prometheus/laylax aprts, thanks. Now if only they would release their own mechbox casing and motors, and switches, then I wouldn't ever have to touch a systema product. I'd bet money (not really, I have no money ) that that carbon fiber is just glued on and will fly off at some point during high speed/torque in practice. Then again, systema might actually make stuff that really is what it claims to be for the first time in the past decade or so.... We'll just have to wait and see, but if the revolution is anything to go on, this= flop! Those motors do pique my interest just a wee bit though.

FWIW, I can appreciate what Systema are trying to do here but I also happen to think the result is something of a "damp squib".

It kinda reminds me of when we were all happily wandering about with our analogue cellphones and whizzy new digital ones were invented that always seemed to provide a worse reception, lose signal more easily and generally felt like a step backward from the analogue phones we already had.

This is a similar sort of thing IMO.
There probably HAS been quite a bit of thought put into these revisions but the end result is all a bit underwhelming, unfortunately.

Think about it though.
Somebody at Systema has actually been considering how the momentum of the secotr gear affects the ability of the gear train to come to a sudden halt after a shot is fired.
They're thinking about how to keep the inner surface of the cylinder lubricated.
They're looking at what a vented piston-head actually does during the firing cycle.
They are trying to make parts lighter and of equal strength.

Now, say what you like about the results but the simple fact is that you'll NEVER see a chinese factory carry out any kind of R&D like this.

These ARE improvements and there's probably been quite a bit of design and testing gone into them.
The results probably aren't worth the outlay to most people but it's nice to know that Systema ARE still thinking about new stuff rather than just standing still.

I guess I'm special too.
Most of my older DMR armalite projects for friends, they were almost all CA or G&P based. With a CA or G&P shell. I've yet to see one break.
I've seen quite a few clone shells snap, along with G&G shells.

Kinda cool idea from Systema, but I have no need for those, especially at that price.

Light is all well and good, but I personally want stronger more durable setups. This is just "nice" and far from something I would consider. Someone might, but now me.

I gotta agree with the ole' Stealth-bombadier on this (not just 'cause your a great mod...but I appreciate your well-phrased opinions!)

...is it truly INNOVATIVE? I can't say that new parts in a V2 is cutting edge, but it did take something more than reflexive thought to put this together. Is being "lighter" INNOVATIVE? Hmmm, at 48 years-young, and the butt-kicking I got hauling my KWA USA M16BR up and down hills in western NC a couple weekend ago...with 394 of my closest friends and targets...I gotta say light would have been nice, but not necessary.

It is good to see some changes here...especially if they ARE cheep and can be clone-ready drop-ins. But others (Modify/KWA) are pushing for STRONGER and MORE ACCURATE guns over LIGHTER and MORE EXPENSIVE....so I guess we'll see over time who just "has" to drop the Bucks/Pounds/Euros on this.

My money's staying in my wallet right now.

Thumpy....OVER

I think someone ought to email this thread to SystemA, seeing as no one here has anything good to say about their design, and no one is obviously impressed. Perhaps if they saw it would be a slap to the face... though im guessing their sales for the "Systema Energy" will be slap enough.

After reading the complete info in the main web I have learned a lot:
1º MAGNUM motors are the best (for my uses and 90%), slower, but more torque and output.
2º new "energy" motors try to comly with torque AND speed needs not a racing car nor a 4X4, just a sub, trying to compete...
3º the carbon pieces seem a way to lower weight but increase strength, dont know if got the objetive.
4º lower prices by lees material needed in the pieces.
5º give our new product an opportunity or my fingers will be lost!!

I've had no issues with V2 gearboxes ever, I'm not special, I just don't open them at any given opportunity, In 13 years of owning aeg I have only ever opened 5 gearboxes, all downgrades, I've never felt the need to upgrade a gun above out of the box power, upgrading is the cause of most issues, if you run your V2 at a decent fps sub 1j it will work for years and 100000s of rounds, and with the glut of V2 guns in th market it make so much sense fo systema to make an upgrade version,
But M16 hop being cack, yes it is, but it is fixable with some thread lock, more threadlock less whining about what is ###### or not, that or p-off to Japan and YOU design a better system (only come back once to the thread whn YOU have designed and marketed better)

is the whole idea of lightened gears to lesson the stopping shock"fly wheel" effect? it would lighten the stress on the gears as theres not as much weight to hoof around. theoreticaly you should gain some RoF, the continuously lubricating cyclinder reflects this. also depends on the gearing ratios they have chosen. if the carbon fibre is done correctly and has the correct weave this would be very strong and suitable for a gear "middle" material. it should mean the gearbox will spin up quicker improving trigger response. but how nmuch of a difference im not sure as your only saving a tiny amount of weight. No it prob wont handle big FPS but would easily handle a friendly 330 FPS.

Juswt my 2 pennies

I do understand that not always stronger means weight, but with an old style piston head (mean the one with rotating part) and lubricant the constant-greasing efect is also got, the part about 3-4-6 holes in the piston head amazes me, do really you help BBs going in the hop up "vacuuning" them when the piston goes backwards? if you have issues loading from the mag always thought it was the mag problems, not nozzle.

What would be a perfet upgrade for me would be a carbon fiber tappet plate, strenght, weight, elasticity... but they say nothing about this piece that has to comply with gears, nozzle piston head and all the other forces involved in the gearbox operation

There is some wonderful irony here:

I'm guessing the largest market for V2 boxes is the U.S. where M16-a-like am bestest.

Fair enough, but this is also where 400fps + limits are common.

& most of us agree that upping a ver2 causes the problems.

The fact that so many replacements (including this latest offering from syst) are available, is testimony to the fact that the original V2 is failing & needs to be replaced.


Greg.

for anyone to p-off to Japan would be an exercise in futility....... "better" performing systems are already out there. Just take any gearbox that isn't a v2 ;-) I agree this is systema's attempt to push the boundary for a v2 layout but as was said earlier in the thread it's just too little actual performance improvement for what systema will charge so many people evidently don't see the point in it.

I agreed with everything Aitch said except the bit you have quoted.

Please note that this is kind of tongue in cheek, not intended to offend & should not be taken too seriously.

'Whining' as Aitch calls it, is, 'sharing opinion'. It's kind of what a forum is about.

The more whining, the more likely the problem is to be solved. If no one reports the problem, no one will provide a solution.

It's a shame that the 'Whiners' out number the solution providers by about a million to one but that is the way of humanity.

I also think that we can all improve the way we 'whine'. Trying to keep our observations positive is preferable but often we find this difficult. Aitches approach to the 'whiners', is a typical example of our negative expressions when we dislike or disagree with something. In practice, he as sunk to the same level, as those he obviously disagrees with. Aitch is 'whining' about,,,,,,,,,, 'whining'.

With out the Whiners, the solution finders will be hard pressed to identify which problems to solve.

It's a kind of symbiotic relationship, whiners identifying the problems & the fixers, identifying & provide solutions. It's also kind of democratic: The larger the volume of whining, the larger the chance of a solution.

By whining, (identifying & bringing attention to a problem), I am actually contributing to the process, that may eventually provide a solution.

Like it or not Aitchy, the whiners are helping move things forward.


Greg.

Whiners are whining ( me included ) the V2 box is what near 20 years old and the only innovation/step forward in it has been blowback addition in all that time ? it's not going to change because some folks don't like armalites,
I stand by my p-off to Japan comment, go on, design a better system to go in an armalite/alike, oh wait, one exists, it's a V2 gearbox

Ah .. if only ICS would design away the extra length at the back of their receiver then it would be hands down the best armalite-alike that most normal people can afford I can dream eh. Reinforced front of the gearbox and split design.... innovation! hehe!

Well, I love a stoner, they are a well thought out, good shootin' rifle.

For airsoft, I personally prefer the AK style mag change, where the mag release is operated with your thumb, while you hold the mag in your hand. If you are looking to just dump empty mags on the floor & shove a new one straight in, then the stoner is a better system.

I have a pair of airsoft M16-a-likes & they are both excellent shooters. I don't skirmish them because of my airsoft preference to take mags out, rather than dump them on the deck. I find that sort of mag change, harder with an M16-a-like than with AK style alternatives: G36's, M14's etc.

For airsoft, I like a functional gun. I also like to customize performance & have found that guns like G36's, M14's & P90's are easier to work on than M16/ver2's.

I also find that along with being easier in the first place, they are more reliable in the long run.

My solution to the ver2 problem has been to avoid them.

Systema don't really have that choice. They have built their business on M16 based guns.

Although blinkin' expensive, the PTW/revolution has moved the 20year old design in a very positive direction.

A ver3, 6 or 7 are a more economical solution to the ver2's issues.

However, we have yet to shoehorn them into the m16 receiver.

Gluing the hop, is not really a fix. Gluing is a short term solution to the 'wandering' problem, associated with M16-a-likes.

What if you intend the use of different ammo types & therefore want an ADJUSTABLE, hop system? Fixed hops are fine, but limited. Fine tuning the hop for different conditions & ammo types is a key factor in maximizing range & accuracy.

Hop rubbers deform, so the hop has to be re set from time to time. I also adjust the hop mid game for the odd, longer shot. I want a hop that is adjustable & I can rely on to hold the position I chose. Not one with a mind of it's own, that has to be locked with an adhesive.

This is all about personal choice, I go for function over form. If you like the look, feel & performance of a ver2 boxed gun, good for you.

As a package, the relatively fragile v2 box, in conjunction with a wandering or non-adjustable hop, just ain't for me. Add the press button mag change & I have to give it a thumbs down. But that's just me.


Greg.

Theres allways a market for these, no fuss, just drop it in go. Revolution was too pricey for most "since the older got the job done just fine", the use of carbon is quite silly imho and there are stress-issues with it in some cases.

I have the previous model probox in my SR25, M150 and running smooth after a LOT of shots. Full auto or more likely high rof is the killer for v2 gearboxes. Sorbopads, silenshafts, etc all make your v2 last for ages.

Personaly im looking forward for this new motor. Depending on price, i might get one for testing. Still looking forward to do a large test on all aftermarket motors around there and compare them to the pricey Magnum that i have found to be the best so far.

Systema would get a nice bonus if they made v3 or other gearboxes too.