From Airsoftews.eu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etb6tuKs9qo...player_embedded

Made by Deepfire


Why do we need a PTW style hopup for regular AEGs when the current hop up systems are the best there is, to my knowledge.

How about a AEG hop up for our PTWs?

Many consider your traditional armalite hopup unit to be a weak point with regards to accuracy and consistancy, with greater preferance going towards drum style hop units as found in the p90, g36 etc. Unless your armalite is an ICS model in which case I believe it has a drum style hop up, many armalite users may be interested in taking a look at this if they want something else to help improve consistancy and accuracy. Assuming it actually works well.

I agree with tirpitz....

One of the factors that holds the M16 platform back from being an excellent dmr platform is the current hop up system.

When these are available, I will most definitely be purchasing one for my nbb platform...

Wait, is the PTW hopup not considered to be the worst out?

Are they?

I haven't owned an AEG in years... Kinda out of the loop.

Ptw hop ups are not better than normal AEG hop ups. In fact they suck... Thats my biggest complaint of the PTW.

darn... looks like i am going to have to make my own hop up then

I've been hearing people complain about the M4 hopUp for years but I'm still not entirely sure I understand what it's weak points are. I've got a lot of M4s, and a smattering of non-M4s ... I've been getting very satisfactory results from my M4 hopUps.

This is perhaps one of the most pointless airsoft products I have ever seen come to market

The PTW hopup is absolutely awful and you're always seeing PTW owners struggle to find ways to improve it or replace it. So why on earth would any AEG user want to put a less effective hopup system in their gun? Even the standard M4 AEG hopup, which is often complained about, is miles ahead of the PTW hopup.

I just don't get what Deepfire was thinking on this one.

It's all about marketing.

Thanks Deepfire.

BUT NO THANKS. 8|

Some M4 chambers don't keep their setting very well, and are hard to fine-tune.

They can be easily fixed by placing a small shim between the larges adjustment wheel and the screw that holds it in place, though.
Makes adjusting it very hard, but once its done, it stays put.
The drum types are better in every way, though.

What's wrong with the PTW hop ? Also CA seem to be using a new drum style hop in their AR designs, can they be used in non CA receivers and are they available to buy seperately?

same here. I don't get what the fuzz is all about. Sure they sometimes don't stay on their place and finding the right setup isn't easy, but I simply install another better M4 hop up. so far I like the prometheus hop up unit combined with TM hop up rubber & nub.

That's funny. You 'don't get what all the fuss is about' & then you list what the problems are & suggest replacing the unit with an after market part.

That is exactly, what all the fuss is about.

If the hop unit was trouble free, you wouldn't be replacing it would you.


Greg.

Strange that you don't dare to say that against USMCorps.

That's funny, I though people were displeased by its design in general. Regardless of it being a replacement or not.
Many hop up units are unsatifactory, just by replacing it with a good one the problem is solved.
But I guess criticising a popular AEG model is easier, instead of going after all bad hop up units by brand and design, regardless of the AEG model.

I had to replace it, because the Marui 2 piece hop up unit cannot be used in a g&p body. In it's stock form it performed flaweless.

If I really want it to be trouble free, I just go and buy myself another TM, preferably a g36.

So to clarify, some brands of M4 hopUps, especially some stock ones that come with some guns aren't the greatest because they don't keep their setting very well, and are hard to fine-tune. The best solution is to replace them with decent aftermarket hopUp units like Systema and Prometheus HopUps? I can't speak for anyone else but I really don't find that a big deal. Unfortunate that you have to spend some more money? Yes. But at $32-$38 I'd hardly classify that as the end of the world nor is it a huge crippling issue. It's an easily fixed issue by replacing a parts set and in a hobby in which many people spend a lot of time and money replacing/upgrading lots of parts on our guns regardless of whether or not the guns are M4's or whatever else ... I'm still not seeing why the M4 HopUp has arbitrarily been dubbed the worst HopUp out there. In comparison, the PTW hopUp has major issues, and there aren't any readily available solutions for it. Now THAT is a crippling issue.

I'm just trying to get some clarity on why there's such sweeping dislike for the M4 hopUp.

My apologies if this has caused any offense. I just thought it was funny.

USMC, didn't answer his own question.

You did, ('I don't know what all the fuzz is all about' etc.) which I thought was odd.

I wasn't picking up on the fact that the hop doesn't perform as well as some alternatives. It was the fact that you seemed to contradict yourself.


Greg.

greg, no offense taken on my end. I'm just trying to get a better understanding of people's beliefs and opinions on the matter.

If the biggest issue is with trying to keep the HopUp's setting to not slip, then aside from a shim, has anyone tried using a tiny o-ring as a spacer?

I have personally not experienced any big issues with fine tuning over the years of playing.

Update: Apparently you need to change the outer barrel and some other stuff in order to use it in a regular AEG. Just check Airsoft news for Deepfires Update.

Works like a charm

Regarding the 'hop' issue, like you, I have not encountered the problem on my own M16-a-likes. I have a CA 15 CQB & a Hurricaine/systemma 416 kit. They don't get used very often, due to my preference for an AK style mag change. Neither of them suffer from hop inconsistencies.

Having said that, friends of mine have suffered the effects of the wandering hop & dumped their Armalit-a-likes, in favor of guns with other hop systems. This situation is a 'fixable' but well documented flaw, in the basic airsoft hop design. I guess it's why it was redesigned & replaced in subsequent airsoft models. A bit like the flaws in the V2 box being solved in the V3 etc.

Putting other, similarly specked guns, up against my own AR's, I do notice that Ak's, P90's, G36's & other rotary type hopped guns do give better shot to shot consistency. On semi, better accuracy is particularly noticeable. On full auto, the difference is negligible.

Fine tuning a rotary type hop to achieve maximum performance, does appear easier to me, than the 'fiddlier' cogs on the M16 type systems.

However, Airsoft is not all about all out performance. If you like the look of an AR, go for it. It's all about enjoyment of the game & 'look', has a lot to do with that.

If you are happy using a stoner, good for you.


Greg.

The problem is that the hop-up rubber are able to rotate and this is resulting in inconsistentcy between shoots. Also the rubber is prone to failure where it is torn due to the thin material. Systema tried to apply the KISS principple, but failed to make it work propperly.

From a PTW user:

I have managed to tune my hop up to be pretty much similar to a normal M4/M16 AEG in way of performance. But still i find this to be quite dumb thing to release for an aeg. You change to this and have to work to get it to shoot as good as your original hop up is beyond me.

theses other factors like length of the feed tube, length of the strike arm that holds the bbs, for example the promy unit with strike arm changes the length of this giving you a greater adjustment over heavier ammo. Also with the heavier the ammo to more chance of the setting being moved. Other after market chambers add barrel notchs to stop the barrel rotating. A small movement will cause a large left to right for instance. The m4 hop is flawed on so many levels. Just adding a rotery adjusver doesnt fix all its problems, which is why i think the new madbull wont work either but thats another thread for another day. The promy ones the only unit to add the heavy ammo fix.

I'm not quite sure how heavier ammo would cause the hopup to rotate as its only coming in contact in one place and the size of the BB hasn't changed, just the density of the materials.

In my experience, the M4 Hopup is the worst design from TM. But it's no permanent issue. Yeah it backs out, and that is fixed with a little shim and a strong tightening.

But the major problems are:
1.) The wheel you turn to apply hop does not do anything until the last half turn (or so). So you go from no hop to max hop in just a small increment which makes fine tuning more tedious than it needs to be.

2.) The wheel becomes very stiff to turn often requiring a tool.

Neither are deal breakers for me, or anyone else for that matter.