bankz5152 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hey, I remember seeing them about a year of so ago as a prototype but did they ever get round to releasing them? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 As in Airsoft shells to use in RS Shotguns? If that's the case, I can't think of a dumber, stupider idea. In fact, i can't think of anything more likely to end up in someone being killed in an Airsoft game. Link to post Share on other sites
Banshee_Will Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Didn't it go the same way as their Kriss project......... Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well considering if a real firearm has no ammunition it's as harmless as a lump of steel. And would play with one if allowed. Either way wanted them for training purposes could test fire in the garden without live shells but still able to shoot. It seems they did go the same way as the Kriss Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well considering if a real firearm has no ammunition it's as harmless as a lump of steel. Just.... no. Seriously, think about it. 20 cops in the states grab a load of Airsoft shells and shotguns to go have a training day. One guy doesn't notice a single live round in his shell pouch or something. Someone dies. The headline would be something along the lines of 'Safe airsoft training leads to death of police officer'. I hope whoever even suggested that idea at Madbull is fired, immediately. Mixing Airsoft games with real steel weapons, even if they're firing Airsoft ammunition of some sort... It's just so many levels of idiotic it defies belief. If somebody brought a live, real steel shotgun (even if they carried no live ammunition for it) i'd be phoning the police instantaneously, and i think 99% of responsible airsofters would as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 And would play with one if allowed. Either way wanted them for training purposes could test fire in the garden without live shells but still able to shoot. I don't think the HO or Police would approve of anyone firing anything from a real gun in their garden (unless their garden happens to be a large area of land in the countryside where shotguns can be used normally) regardless of it being bbs or not. The media however would love it, but only because they could use it as an excuse to sell papers and come up with lots of anti-gun and anti-airsoft headlines. It's just a stupid idea on so many levels and I hope they never become available to buy tbh. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Just.... no. Seriously, think about it. 20 cops in the states grab a load of Airsoft shells and shotguns to go have a training day. One guy doesn't notice a single live round in his shell pouch or something. Someone dies. The headline would be something along the lines of 'Safe airsoft training leads to death of police officer'. if someone gets killed with a real shot gun with real ammunition than it has nothing to do with airsoft police officers train with real guns all the time (simunition)or soldiers train with real guns with blank rounds either way they can load real munition by mistake Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 if someone gets killed with a real shot gun with real ammunition than it has nothing to do with airsoft police officers train with real guns all the time (simunition)or soldiers train with real guns with blank rounds either way they can load real munition by mistake That's exactly the point - A soldier getting killed by a live round during a simmunition event has NOTHING to do with Airsoft. A Soldier, L/E officer, or civilian being killed with a live shotgun shell mistakenly used in place of an Airsoft one during an Airsoft related event is going to cause serious, SERIOUS *suitcase* for our sport. Airsoft's legality in a lot of places is fragile - Does throwing a bunch of real steel shotguns into the mix sound like a good idea? *fruitcage* no. If you want realism, get a GBBR. Get a properly tuned Maruzen shell fed shotgun. Why the hell would you need an RS shotgun, capable of firing RS ammunition in an Airsoft game? Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 That's exactly the point - A soldier getting killed by a live round during a simmunition event has NOTHING to do with Airsoft. A Soldier, L/E officer, or civilian being killed with a live shotgun shell mistakenly used in place of an Airsoft one during an Airsoft related event is going to cause serious, SERIOUS *suitcase* for our sport. then all airsoft guns should be brightly colored you never know that a soldier bring a real gun to a airsoft match by mistake Airsoft's legality in a lot of places is fragile - Does throwing a bunch of real steel shotguns into the mix sound like a good idea? *fruitcage* no. If you want realism, get a GBBR. Get a properly tuned Maruzen shell fed shotgun. Why the hell would you need an RS shotgun, capable of firing RS ammunition in an Airsoft game? those shells where never intended to be used in a airsoft match however with those shells police officers can train with their real guns or its a way that 3 gun shooters can save money on ammunition during training Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 then all airsoft guns should be brightly colored you never know that a soldier bring a real gun to a airsoft match by mistake Go and play paintball, if that's your thoughts. And do you really, really think any airsofter in the whole world would get to an airsoft game with a pre-loaded gun and not even check a single function of it before entering a match and firing at someone? those shells where never intended to be used in a airsoft match however with those shells police officers can train with their real guns or its a way that 3 gun shooters can save money on ammunition during training Did you not even read the hypothetical situation i originally described? The risk of someone being stupid enough to mix a live shell with a Madbull one is, admittedly, minimal. But what happens to Airsoft if it happens? Mixing toys and firearms is just a bad idea, however you look at it. Police offers can train with exact copies of their real guns. They can train with their own shotguns using simmunitions or blanks. Why would they need an RS compatible Airsoft shotgun shell? There's simply no need for it, and it adds all kinds of risks. Let alone, as Rob has pointed out, the media. Every single sun reader in the UK would spit coffee out over their morning paper as they came to the conclusion that because a shotgun can fire a BB, a BB gun can fire a shotgun. There is NO logical reason to take an RS Shotgun to an airsoft game. Ever. If you want games that realistic, join the army or a band of pirates. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 do you really really think that someone would go to a airsoft match with a real shotgun without double checking to see if there are no live round in it those weren't my tough i was just thinking along your lines (Reductio ad absurdum) here is NO logical reason to take an RS Shotgun to an airsoft game. Ever. If you want games that realistic, join the army or a band of pirates. i agree that you shouldn't bring a real gun anywhere near an airsoft place, but thats no reason to ban those shells or fire the person who invented them and they are designed for training not for airsoft games Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 you never know that a soldier bring a real gun to a airsoft match by mistake You've just suggested that a real soldier would do the same. Say you're on a simulation exercise. You've got 30 of these 'Airsoft' shells and a real shotgun. You removed the live shells from your shell carrier earlier in the day, but one got caught on a flap and ended up back in the pouch. You fill the pouch up with 'Airsoft' shells, and in the heat of the training exercise, the real shell gets loaded, fired, and someone is killed. Same thing can happen at an Airsoft match. Someone brings along a Mossberg, in the case they always transport it in. They thought all the shells had been stored, but one gets caught in the case, bundled in with the madbull shells and ends up getting fired at someone. Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't get why you're fighting - the shell was never made, and the thought of using these in RS weapons has been shot down many times. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't get why you're fighting - the shell was never made, and the thought of using these in RS weapons has been shot down many times. I wasn't aware it was never made, so i guess that answers the original question... As for the fighting/discussing/arguing/whatever, i just very strongly believe any association between real weapons and airsoft ammunition or vice versa is a horrendously bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I reckon that some people might well be capable of putting a 00 buck shell in with an airsoft shell by mistake. You don't have to take an IQ test to buy a RS shotgun, and there's plenty of stupid, lazy airsofters who don't pay much attention to their kit when it comes to safety; proven by the fact that people have sustained eye injuries while skirmishing (something that should not ever happen). When you use blanks you fit a blank firing adaptor to your weapon and often use blank-only magazines, so in the unlikely event you mix a live round in with the blank it's not going to leave the end of the barrel and hurt anyone. When you use simunitions you have to fit the weapon with a conversion kit that also stops you firing live rounds in the even more unlikely event you mixed a live one in with the brightly coloured paint rounds. No such safety measures with the madbull shells, you get the wrong ammo in there and fire it at someone you will severely injure or kill them. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 you never know that a soldier bring a real gun to a airsoft match by mistake You've just suggested that a real soldier would do the same. i was mocking your argument Say you're on a simulation exercise. You've got 30 of these 'Airsoft' shells and a real shotgun. You removed the live shells from your shell carrier earlier in the day, but one got caught on a flap and ended up back in the pouch. You fill the pouch up with 'Airsoft' shells, and in the heat of the training exercise, the real shell gets loaded, fired, and someone is killed. thats a valid point but a shooter should always check his fire arm (in normal situation weapons and munition should be stored in seperate case and only mixed while in the firing range I don't get why you're fighting - the shell was never made, and the thought of using these in RS weapons has been shot down many times. good point Link to post Share on other sites
aznriptide859 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Original thread here: http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=155105 Madbull DID make a bunch of CO2 shells for the Tanaka system, but they say on their website it won't work for RS shotguns otherwise you'll damage the bolt or something. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 i was mocking your argument Not long ago, there was a much reported story in the news, of a highly trained, experienced, intelligent firearms officer accidentally shooting someone with a large calibre revolver during a training exercise in a classroom. Why? Because he'd mixed a live round with dummy ammunition. If that can happen, then i'd say it's far from impossible a live shotgun shell could end up with a pile of madbull shells. As for the 'Shooter should check his firearm' - Yes, yes he should. Does that mean in the heat of battle while frantically chucking shells into a mossberg you're going to be inspecting the label on each and every round? If a training exercise were designed to simulate real life, checking every shell frankly wouldn't work. All it takes is one live shell accidentally loaded to kill someone, and that's definitely not impossible. Essentially, you've been arguing that these non existent shells could be good for police training. Which could get someone killed. Clearly genius. I'm just seriously glad they never put these shells into production. Link to post Share on other sites
Banshee_Will Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 However if we are shifting to stupid inventions and being able to mix simmuntions with live rounds see below: (for some hair raising stuff!) http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/and-the-award-for-the-stupidest-thing-at-the-2008-shot-show-goes-to%E2%80%A6-simunitions/ I'm actually glad that madbull didn't create these, because its all fine and well saying "you should check your rounds" etc BUT things can and will go wrong! (see murphy's law) Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm actually glad that madbull didn't create these, because its all fine and well saying "you should check your rounds" etc BUT things can and will go wrong! (see murphy's law) thats why it is illegal to store or transport guns and ammo together lets just conclude that it would be a good thing in a world where all gun owners where smart and responsible and the media won't blow up and the story when an accident would occur Link to post Share on other sites
-Angel- Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 lets just conclude that it would be a good thing in a world where all gun owners where smart and responsible and the media won't blow up and the story when an accident would occur No, it would still be a bad idea. You're priorities are skewed if "the media blowing it out of proportion" is your first thought, rather than the fact someone was dead. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 My appologes for causing such a rampant debant. Though an interesting point to discuss after reading what everyone has to say it is a bad idea to mix airsoft and RS. As stated before the sport is fragile and the smallest flick could make it illeagle which none of us want! Though Madbull came up with a vey good idea by reinventing the shell rather than the shotgun for reliability it would be bad for the sport. Iv seen many people do stupid *suitcase* before an handing them an RS would be a terrible mistake! In regard to early posts I do have a large garden but cannot shoot clays on it but 2 mins walk away I can on a large privatly owned feild which is where I would intend to practice shooting targets. Also could have been good for my local club which due to noise pollution can only shoot subsonic rounds fortnightly on weekends. All reasons dissucussed above are most likely why the project was cancelled. What I don't get however is that I 'could' buy ab RS Moss 500 for around £400 - £500 new but airsoft shotguns can exceed that. So why can't airsoft be a similar if not cheaper but have the same reliabillity? using a similar Co2 charged shell similar to that of th Wa Shan double barrels (gas charged shell, 'firing pin') Top have manged top make a shell fed, shell ejecting, blow back, felt recoil AEG. Can this be adapted to a shotgun? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 The powers that be tend not to like RiFs where the propellant is stored within the round rather than (as with almost all airsoft guns) the weapon itself, or the mag in the case of GBBrs. Once you add a firing pin to something that strikes a certain point on the base of whatever you've loaded in to it, you're getting rather close to the operation of a real weapon. The two exceptions I can think of which are currently in wide-spread airsoft use are 40mm launchers and the shell ejecting shotguns, and I don't really know anything anout the Tanakas/Maruzens but I'd imagine the magazine tube/barrel is the wrong dimensions to fit a RS shell. If you could ever get hold of a real 40mm round (pretty sure it's only 37mm civilians are allowed to buy in the US) and an airsoft launcher that it fitted in to, you'd probably kill yourself when you fired it and the tube turned in to high speed shrapnel. The great thing about AEGs that keeps them nice and 'safe' from the law is that you only load a 6mm bb in to it and the gearbox generates the air to propel said bb, it's so far different from the operation of a real gun that no one can realistically argue they can be converted to something that shoots 5.56 at a muzzle velocity of 3000fps, rather than 6mm at 300. The new TOP design is also quite good in terms of this, because despite the fact it loads shells that look pretty realistic, the brass case itself is nothing more than a nice looking AEG nozzle, the gearbox still uses a spring and piston to create air pressure to fire the bb. Link to post Share on other sites
Snowman1 Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 thats why it is illegal to store or transport guns and ammo together lets just conclude that it would be a good thing in a world where all gun owners where smart and responsible and the media won't blow up and the story when an accident would occur There are other countries with different laws out there, you know. Link to post Share on other sites
teflon don Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 No, it would still be a bad idea. You're priorities are skewed if "the media blowing it out of proportion" is your first thought, rather than the fact someone was dead. my first thought was that people who handle guns should be smart enough so they don't end up in a situation where they shoot someone as i have stated before if someone gets shot whit a real shotgun with real ammunition then it should be a debate about the dangers of airsoft to bad that media could turn that story around (im not saying that they will but some country have less rational people than others) my priority's aren't screwed up, as long as guns exist there will be people who do stupid stuff with them thats not avoidable so its somewhat important how people react when something would go wrong There are other countries with different laws out there, you know. i know but not because its legal that its a good idea (sometimes you need laws to protect people from their own stupidity) Link to post Share on other sites
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